Secondary Teachers, what do you think about going back to school for the last term with social distancing?

[sunshineanddaffodils]

My year 8 and year 10 dc are in the best possible situation at this point. Both have their own computer, space to work, pretty good home learning from school and both are cooperating. However, I am so worried about the impact being off school until September will have on them socially, on their mental well-being let alone the academic side of things. When I think about dc who are less fortunate than mine I feel so anxious and concerned. I’d be so happy to see some sort of phased return to school as soon as possible really. Looking at the stats I’m not concerned about the health any of the dc or staff at the school although obviously wouldn’t expect anyone in the vulnerable categories or dc of the vulnerable to be expected to return (there’s only one teacher at at their school who is shielding because he’s diabetic). I think school should reopen and the vulnerable remain isolated so the virus cannot be passed on to them if dc fo pick it up at school.

Infernotowering - but are those staff in an airless room with 30+ people for an hour at a time, with a fresh lot of 30 people every hour for 5 hours, without cleaning in between and without any PPE yet expected to get up close to those people?

Have you ever been in a hospital? No air. Windows glued shut. Heating on full blast. Fans circulating germs. Constant turnover of different staff members and patients who are moving even more round a hospital than before. And there is no PPE for non covid wards.

@infernotowering

So if the school administrator is in front of my class, who administrates?

If the office staff are in front of my class, who runs the office?

If the site manager is in front of my class, who runs the site?

Do you have for example; site managers and cleaners, intubating patients in A&E?

All the hospitals I have been in have had about 6 patients in a bay about twice the size of my classroom.

How is it any funnier than a paediatric audiology technician who has never been in a hospital being redeployed into a nursing role?

But I assume the paediatric audiology is not currently taking place, whereas the school admin and building maintenance very much are ongoing and can't just be put to one side for later.

infernotowering

So if the school administrator is in front of my class, who administrates?

Another member of staff who needs is vulnerable and is taught the role.

If the office staff are in front of my class, who runs the office?

Another member of staff who needs is vulnerable and is taught the role.

If the site manager is in front of my class, who runs the site?

Another member of staff who needs is vulnerable and is taught the role. Basically - all the roles get swapped around to put non vulnerable people at the front. Not saying it's ideal...and people hated it in my hospital but it's working.

Do you have for example; site managers and cleaners, intubating patients in A&E?
Are you classing ITU work the same as teaching? Yes, some people have been upskilled. Site managers and cleaners are doing nursing roles not doctor roles.

All Im saying is, everyone keeps talking about schools not opening in the future because shielded people need to stay away so, like hospitals, you move everyone around.

Nursing has to be done by a physically present person.

Teaching is best done by a physically present teacher. A caretaker reading a script to a class isn’t the next best option. The student at home accessing online resources and videos of a teacher teaching is the next best option. The teacher is the necessary bit, not the physical presence.

Are you classing ITU work the same as teaching?

This is so ignorant and offensive.

@jassey

why so defensive? I asked some questions, not goady at all. I am not a scientist and don't pretend to understand the science and am asking questions on that basis....there is much being made of the 'children don't pass it on' and used by parents as a reason we should be back in school. I am asking the bigger questions - when is a child not a child and what that means for teachers, particularly high school teachers. If transmission from child to adult is 'rare', that would bode well for primary teachers and staff in primary schools. However, what is 'rare' in numbers? < less than 1%, 10% or more? Even 10% in terms of millions of people could be considered 'rare', I think? In which case, what does that mean for the average teacher?

I recognise that there is not much evidence yet with it being a new virus. I also recognise that things are changing constantly as new things are learnt. But as a teacher, I didn't sign up to fighting frontline virus situations, and I want to understand what it means for me, my family (one member of which is high risk from 2 different perspectives) and the children I teach and their families if I go back into a classroom next week, in two months, in 6 months or longer. I want to be able to effectively manage that risk and I want the necessary tools of risk management in place. In what way is it goady to ask those questions? You seemed to know what you were talking about. Sorry I asked.

Very interesting link thanks cardi

What is the point of getting kids back into schools to have them taught by administrators? Presumably it isn’t education or narrowing the gap.

I was in school this week supervising children of key workers. There were 6 of them, on a site who's had usually houses 1400. They were in a computer room following the online lessons which have been set for all students. Although they were 2m apart when they were sat down, it was IMPOSSIBLE to keep them 2m apart at all times, For example, if one of them left the room to go to the toilet, or when they were walking across the hallway to go outside. With 6 students.

Evidence clearly shows children can experience severe disease, the virus causing #COVID19 is easily spread, and that transmission has occurred in Australian schools.

Given we don't know the number of undetected cases in Australia, re-opening schools would be high-risk.

@cardibach Not saying they do. And not saying it's conclusive but that and some other studies from around the world are promising and that's what i'm interested in. I don't care one way or the other when schools go back, just interested in the research and looking forward to more.

For all the teachers on here, you know schools the best. What do you think should happen with schools until there is a vaccine? I think if you all said what could work based on your experience would help everyone understand the options?

I think they need to start by getting the testing sorted and the R value quite low. Then maybe bring some pupils in part time and assess what happens to the R value.

As a teacher I think we continue distance learning for the majority, in school provision for key workers with no alternative, until numbers of cases are low enough for track, trace and quarantine to work. Then we go back in a phased way. Like in Australia where they have about 200 cases in an area the size of the UK....

What an incredibly funny thread.

People are quite clearly losing their grip on reality.

Keeping kids at home accessing online learning is probably a better solution education-wise than trying to bodge some one-fifth-school four-fifths-online solution just so that the government can claim to have re-opened schools.

For the ‘we need childcare to get parents back to work’ people - proper childcare hubs run as actual childcare so similar to holiday clubs.

@infernotowering

Apologies, possibly an extreme example.

Do you have cleaners, site managers and canteen staff nursing?

@infernotowering - interesting idea but I think you've probably gone slightly the wrong way.

In your analogy your doctor would be the equivalent of the teacher with the TA being the equivalent of the nurse. So TAs would and possibly could step up into a teaching role for a shielding colleague. Many do, two of my friends are TAs and cover for the teacher on occasion, when the teacher has to go to a meeting for example. It's not ideal though, even with advice from the shielding teacher pupils won't get the same level of education (no offence to TAs!) Schools will, in those cases, become a child care facility with a bit of learning as and when possible. Examinations and future qualifications for the kids would be in a bit of jeopardy but probably no more than they are now. But, yes, the parents could get back to work. It's an idea IF the shielding person has the knowledge to be able to take over the work of the person now supporting the TA. I couldn't do our caretaker's job, for example, even with training. Wouldn't have a clue where to start.

To be honest I can see that as an idea to be chucked around in our school.

But you do need someone who has some sort of clue on how to run a classroom, rather than a person plucked from the back office. All age groups of kids have the potential to be difficult. Our school library, for example, discovered by chance that a group of year 10s had the bright idea of licking books...just before we were put into lockdown. We have no idea how many were doing this or for how long. They were top band pupils (not that that should make a difference but just to show what schools can be up against).

Some kids can smell fear or inexperience at 50 paces and will use it unfortunately.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=VhZX3hDclgM

I’d think something that looks like this. Inferno. Or as close as we can get it. Corridors would be an issue but staggered start finish times/perhaps one way systems where buildings allow, might sort that. I can see single file corridors becoming the norm rather than something that causes a fight on Twitter. And the live/recorded online videos will stop if teachers are in school teaching.

And then we’d need to keep an eye on the R0 to see what effect it has.

What do you think should happen with schools until there is a vaccine?

I think there should be a period of really strict lockdown that runs up to the end of the shielding 3 months.

Then I think we should open to Year 10, Year 6 and Reception. Year 10 can do some content, in smaller groups spread across the school. The others can be hosted in the year they are in and do some transition work / which would make those groups smaller also.

Really good hygiene practice and cleaning of schools x 2 per day.

Then I think over the summer we’d plan to have all kids back in by the end of term 1, Start with 7 and 11 at high school, (and maybe 1 and 6 at primary) embed really strong hand washing etc. Then build up through the term a group at a time, instilling hand hygiene and as little physical contact as possible.

That’s what I would do 🤷🏻‍♀️

@LondonJax yes, you've probably explained it better than me. Hospitals aren't hospitals now, they are care for covid facilities so I can see the same for schools in order to move through. Not ideal. Not what people want. The NHS won't function normally until a vaccine is distributed widely either.

infernotowering
Are you classing ITU work the same as teaching?

You are classing teaching as the same as janitorial work, and if its ok for you to make amazingly stupid comments, why the fuck not.

OMFG.

Some of the comments on this thread aren’t going to help with teacher retention rates. We need to look after teachers not chase them away from their profession.

Mumsnet 'wisdom' appears to be that you can verbally abuse teachers, tell them they are lazy and a waste of money and treat them like shit because they love their long holidays and finishing work at 3pm daily so will stay in their jobs. Next up are the NHS staff who are now starting to be criticised on Mumsnet.