Secondary Teachers, what do you think about going back to school for the last term with social distancing?

[sunshineanddaffodils]

My year 8 and year 10 dc are in the best possible situation at this point. Both have their own computer, space to work, pretty good home learning from school and both are cooperating. However, I am so worried about the impact being off school until September will have on them socially, on their mental well-being let alone the academic side of things. When I think about dc who are less fortunate than mine I feel so anxious and concerned. I’d be so happy to see some sort of phased return to school as soon as possible really. Looking at the stats I’m not concerned about the health any of the dc or staff at the school although obviously wouldn’t expect anyone in the vulnerable categories or dc of the vulnerable to be expected to return (there’s only one teacher at at their school who is shielding because he’s diabetic). I think school should reopen and the vulnerable remain isolated so the virus cannot be passed on to them if dc fo pick it up at school.

@FrippEnos no I didn't.

why so defensive? I asked some questions, not goady at all. I am not a scientist and don't pretend to understand the science and am asking questions on that basis....there is much being made of the 'children don't pass it on' and used by parents as a reason we should be back in school.

I’m not being defensive. I have been very clear in each of my posts that the evidence base around infection and transmission in children is incredibly shaky and early. Given that, a barrage of questions requiring detailed and unequivocal answers did strike me as goady; I accept that wasn’t your intention.

Basically - we know fuck all about this virus. We know that some kids can get it, and can get it badly; we know that they are incredibly unlikely to die from it, beyond that we know nothing. We don’t know if they’re asymptomatic carriers in large numbers or if they are less vulnerable to infection. We don’t know what household transmission patterns are apart from some wary studies. We only have tiny and problematic population studies.

We know nothing. We don’t know if children pass it on in large numbers (as stated by the PP I challenged as misinformation - it is!) or whether children pass it on in disproportionately low numbers (the studies are early, small, culturally specific and not peer reviewed.) None of us should be making any statements of fact beyond what we know. Some children get it; some of those children get it severely, the risk of death in children is very very low.

@deepwatersolo this isn't the case. I know of many many parents who are choosing to do nothing educational with their primary aged kids. "My school is closed today" has been the mantra of some parents I know on FB. Paddling pools have been blown up. "My child doesn't concentrate/doesn't want to sit still and learn/prefers playing in the garden" etc etc etc. These are parents who are at home (if fact are SAHP) and all, without exception, would have schools open on Monday because "my child needs to learn".

infernotowering

For all the teachers on here, you know schools the best. What do you think should happen with schools until there is a vaccine?

We have put forward various thoughts on this only to be shot down and told that "we are to scared to go back to work" or "work shy", "lazy" etc.

I don't know the best way to do get kids back in school.

I suspect that it will start with yrs 6, 10 and 12.
The only way to social distance would be to stagger start, lunch and break, and finish times.
You would have to have one way systems around the school. That are enforced by sending kids home. (I can already see the complaints on MN and parents generally)
Behaviour would have to be strictly enforced and sanctioned.
Teachers would have to teach out of their specialties due to reduced class sizes.
I suspect that non core subjects may have to be dropped for a while, increasing the work of the specialists.
Other countries are only having outdoor lessons.

And that is just a couple of year groups in school.

I have no idea how the whole cohort could go back in a meaningful manner.

infernotowering

no I didn't.

You did, you seem to think that anyone can stand in front of a class and its teaching.

Have some respect, for the profession if not for the people.

@FrippEnos I disagree. That's not what I said.

@infernotowering it kinda seemed like you did

But.... I think we’ll go back when the sciencists tells the government, who discuss it with the NAHT and DfE, and then school leadership will put something in place for a phased return.

I would imagine this will relate to if the R value will be affected, or not, and this will be closely monitored.

Due to lack of testing and tracking our attempts to get back to normal will, I think, be harder. This will impact on schools too.

I think when we return, our jobs won’t bounce back to total normality, however I don’t think the site manager, cleaners and dinner staff will be expected to manage classes of children.

Are site managers and cleaners really functioning as nurses? Or are they actually HCAs? I find it incredibly hard to believe that completely untrained people are functioning as nurses.

I think the current situation is better than having only some children in school and some at home. Then teachers would have to both physically teach and set online work. Keeping on top of the online stuff is proving difficult enough.

I don't know the answers. I don't know what will happen. I do know that schools will need time to plan for whatever the government decides.

That Germany you tube looks grim
And not a nice environment.

This isn't easy.

Would it work to put all the kids back a year?

infernotowering

Then you need to heavily edit what you wrote, because that is how it comes across.

Especially when you get shirty about comparing teachers to ITU work.

All the kids including those who were due to start in September, Lightsabre? Some parents might object to that.
On top of that, and the fact that they all completed basically 2/3rds of the year, it wouldn’t change anything, would it? How would they socially distance?

@Lightsabre when do we catch the year up? Or just never bother and school is aged 5-19 from now on? Could impact on 3yo funding for nursery.

No because what happens to the incoming Yr7 and reception kids?

Due to lack of testing and tracking our attempts to get back to normal will, I think, be harder. This will impact on schools too.

Does the UK not track as a policy? Or are you saying in reality they are not tracking enough?

Lightsabre
Would it work to put all the kids back a year?

The problem is what do you do with the pupils that would have gone in to reception or nursery?
Schools are not big enough to have a double sized year group.

The other issue is how do the universities and colleges cope with a missing year group, that would be a big reduction in funding for them.

The knock on effects would be enormous.

Does the UK not track as a policy? Or are you saying in reality they are not tracking enough?

They aren’t tracking at all at the moment.

Yeah I wasn’t aware they were tracking, mainly because they’re not testing - they don’t have the facility to test all HCPs who need it, let alone the general public - so even if they were tracking it wouldn’t be that effective.

@sunshineanddaffodils

What makes you anxious?

I am a teacher and I am not worried about what will happen to pupils in my school or my own children who are in Secondary and primary.

Most pupils will be in the same boat. I certainly wouldn't worry about the average child even with the average support at home.
There will be vulnerable pupils who might fall behind, these pupils sadly fall behind attending school also. They will be on schools' radar and schools will try their best to support these vulnerable pupils.

Why am I not worried? Because schools will have to adjust expectation of pupils when they return and grade boundaries will adjust accordingly. They will not be disadvantaged at all. How do you think they will be disadvantaged? I'm really curious?

Why do you think your children's mental health will suffer?

That is a genuine question as I have read lots of threads where parents are saying that their kids are much happier, calmer and less stressed as a result of not being in school and not having the fear of missing out, that is also true of my kids too.

Our cleaner works 6-9 in the morning and 3-6 in the afternoon, his class could be interesting!

Does the UK not track as a policy? Or are you saying in reality they are not tracking enough?

We’re not even testing enough to track. We’re basically testing people sick enough to be admitted to hospital, NHS staff and as of Friday other key workers. Fuck knows what’s going on in care homes.

I think as & when students start going back, education is going to be very...weird...for quite some time. With huge differences in provision between schools & areas.

I would envisage schools opening EITHER based on educational need (so to certain year groups on a phased return) OR on an economic basis (so extend the 'key worker' category of parents, eventually leading to 'ok you can send your kids if you want'.)

Either way you have x kids physically in school, full or part time, & y kids at home needing some sort of distance learning provision.

There just aren't the teacher numbers to do that effectively. I suspect you'd end up with big groups in spaced out desks in the hall, being supervised rather than taught, & completing the same work as the at home contingent. Lots of reliance on videos if the tech is available, & on worksheets where it isn't.

It will be shit for absolutely everyone.

The alternative is the 'tap' theory - everybody back, spikes of covid 19 everywhere, schools shutting down & re-opening regularly as infection rates rise & fall - probably in a local basis as the hotspots move around.

Also shit.

Disclaimer: I'm in a posh overseas school. We are lucky enough to be able to do high quality distance learning (everyone has a laptop & motivation & family support, classes are tiny - so long as the fees keep coming in we're fine...). So I'm speculating from outside, but that's my theory...

Could impact on 3yo funding for nursery.

Also a bit of a bastard for those whose financial planning hadn’t included an extra £10k for an extra year of nursery, nurseries who don’t have space for an extra year of kids, and of course 3 and 4 year olds who are ready and excited for schools.

I think, regardless of what 'solution' is implemented, parents are going to have to understand that school will not be that 'constant' in their lives as it always has been for quite a few months.

I'm a parent of a year 8 child as well as working in a support role in a school. I want him to go back to school. He's missing his friends. We're coping with the home working but it's not ideal. So I understand why parents are concerned about education. I also understand those who, having had that 'safety net' of having their kids at school whilst they are at work, want it back!

But some parents don't seem to understand that schools probably won't just 'go back'. No other country is just 'going back'. It's phased, it's watchful on health figures, it's constantly changing and amending.

I've said told this anecdote on other, similar, threads so apologies if you've read it before. DH was speaking to someone in Denmark last week. She's part of a project that he's working on but doesn't work for his employer.

She was saying her kids are back at primary school. But only until 1pm. She has to leave home at 12.30pm to pick them up.

There are no school meals, she has to supply a packed lunch because they don't want the children moving around the school. They stay in class. Class sizes are reduced to 10 - they sit apart.

She used to have them in breakfast club and after school activities so she could work a normal day, outside the home. She and her DH, who is a key worker, are dreading her company telling her WFH is ending because she has nowhere safe for the children after 1pm. They are, I believe, 6 and 8 years old so can't be left alone.

Breakfast clubs and after school clubs are not starting up again for the foreseeable future because teachers are teaching children on rota. Her children's teachers have other children in the afternoon so can't run clubs. That's a luxury that has ended for now.

She's assuming child minders aren't taking new children. She's not even bothered to check because she knows they'd have to do social distancing and child minders can't usually do that with the children numbers that they currently have!

So, from her point of view, it's great having three hours uninterrupted WFH time. But she won't be able to go back to 'out of the house' work unless her employer can allow her to do part time. And she's dreading that conversation because 'the schools are back'.

There's going back to school and going back to school...

As said above I am a teacher and this is what I think of think of the pros and cons

option A - all kids go back PROS = much easier to teach 'proper'lessons / parents can get back to their work. CONS = social distancing impossible / staff will be reduced because of vulnerable teachers / self isolation etc

Option B - part time (students go in on a rota) PROS = you will get good access to education some of the time. CONS - the rest of the time you'll have little to NO provision of education provided by school.
It would be impossible for teachers to work full time in school and provide remote learning. There would have to be a significant restructuring of facilities and staffing provision to make this work.

Option C - school continues to be only available to key worker children and vulnerable children. PROS = children don't spread the virus / teachers can concentrate on improving the quality of remote learning. CONS - children of parents who don't value education will suffer but to be honest, children pick up when parents don't value education, have no respect for the teachers and their poor behaviour demonstrates this giving themselves a very poor chance of progress in school.

I just wish parents would realise that by supporting school they are giving children a better chance of progressing. Disrespecting staff and school means that their children will inevitably fail.

Option B - pupils attend on part time basis.