Secondary Teachers, what do you think about going back to school for the last term with social distancing?

[sunshineanddaffodils]

My year 8 and year 10 dc are in the best possible situation at this point. Both have their own computer, space to work, pretty good home learning from school and both are cooperating. However, I am so worried about the impact being off school until September will have on them socially, on their mental well-being let alone the academic side of things. When I think about dc who are less fortunate than mine I feel so anxious and concerned. I’d be so happy to see some sort of phased return to school as soon as possible really. Looking at the stats I’m not concerned about the health any of the dc or staff at the school although obviously wouldn’t expect anyone in the vulnerable categories or dc of the vulnerable to be expected to return (there’s only one teacher at at their school who is shielding because he’s diabetic). I think school should reopen and the vulnerable remain isolated so the virus cannot be passed on to them if dc fo pick it up at school.

Social distancing will not work in state secondary schools. Fact

JassyRadlett

That said, the evidence base is early and patchy so no one should be making absolute statements on the issue. You really have to question the motives of anyone doing so.

This is the truth of it so saying that one is misinformation whilst the other is fact is also wrong.

The truth is that there is little evidence to support either stance.

@FATEdestiny

All those things you list are very normal for schools to be doing, not quite the reason for this thread though.

It’s not about beings naysayers, it’s about saying we’ll be back when the science says we can. To be fair, we don’t make any of the decisions- the government and DfE will tell us (hopefully) based on scientific advice, most likely (hopefully!!) in collaboration with the NAHT.

That said, the evidence base is early and patchy so no one should be making absolute statements on the issue. You really have to question the motives of anyone doing so.

This! We need more research.

I find these threads infuriating, but at the same time they’re hilarious.

Government say; “we’ll open schools when the science says it’s right”

Mumsnet; “teachers don’t want to work”

Government; “the media have said that schools may open, we are saying NO they won’t”

Mumsnet; “schools should go back, because I’m too busy to home school - we need bubble suits, where’s the bloody innovation - my pretend school has been creating mr blobby outfits in the textiles department to ensure social distancing”

Government; we’ll send kids back when we have the science that it will not affect the R rate.

Mumsnet; bloody lazy teachers, they’ve always being crap.

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

Beeb that about sums it up

This is the truth of it so saying that one is misinformation whilst the other is fact is also wrong.

Indeed. Which is why I did not.

The truth is that there is little evidence to support either stance.

Yes, as I said, the evidence base is early and patchy. There is a little evidence pointing towards the idea that children are not significant spreaders in the same way they are for influenza; there is none I have seen to support a super spreader or carrier hypothesis. Grateful if you can share any you’ve seen.

The very early and limited evidence is currently pointing towards a hopeful and encouraging direction but anyone making absolute statements based on that would be equally guilty of misinformation.

Looking at the stats I’m not concerned about the health any of the dc or staff at the school although obviously wouldn’t expect anyone in the vulnerable categories or dc of the vulnerable to be expected to return

What about the at increased groups? Nt the shielded once at most risk, but those just below that - the ones the Government originally had on their lists: the one for pregnant women, those with asthma, taking various medication other health conditions - those eligible for the flu jab each year?

You will have no real idea how many of the children and staff fit into that category. Or are you still not concerned about the health of those teachers and children?

The numbers for that will be much higher than you think, even just for staff.

In my school of 28 full/part time teaching staff/SMT 11 are in that group of either them or one of their dependents in their household are in that group and/or the most venerable group. That is almost 40% of staff affected.

We already know from the week before schools closed there are a fair few number of children in that increased group too.

We are open for key worker and vulnerable children - we can fit 8 children, with social distancing, into our largest classrooms. We normally have 30 in each class. We don't have any spare capacity in terms of rooms. We are an old victorian building and space is restricted.

So who do we protect? Only that most vulnerable group? Or do we include those at increased risk as originally defined by the Government (you know, all those with the underlying health issues that are never actually explained in the number of deaths) or none of them?

@WhyNotMe40 I'm with you. Just furlough us, I'm working 7-8 hrs a day at home, in constant contact with pupils (and their parents) including evenings and weekends. Yet, still nothing we do is good enough. I'm fucking sick of it.

Most things come back to money , even women getting the vote (we needed their work). So this will be the same as we live in a real not a perfect world. The virus will be amongst us for a long while and there is no effective vaccine. Unless teachers want no jobs next year as we run out of money to pay them or want 50% pay cuts they will have to go back to school and take the covid 19 risk. We cannot afford not to have parents working.

@HowManyToes exactly.
And then I can focus on the home education of my own primary aged kids and trying to get my preschool aged one school ready. I can't be all things to everyone, it's impossible.
My mother has COPD and my FIL had terminal cancer. My broher has already died and I have no other family.
Just furlough me, or I might just resign to be honest.

Ahhh Xenia

No teacher thread is complete without you.

Teachers are no different to everyone else - you either do your job and get paid, or don't do it and go without pay.

I am doing my job - well my new version of the job at home.
I am working longer hours than ever before, before and after official school hours and weekends. Oh, and all through Easter too.
I have, like all teachers, had to adapt.

I am not allowed to be on the rota due to an underlying health issue.
But that doesn't mean I am sat at home drinking tea all day with my feet up.

I am sick to death of reading the same old threads on MN basically saying all teaching staff are lazy and don't want to be in school.

I'd love to be doing my proper job. I miss the children and I miss being with my colleagues. I miss going out to work. However, I also don't want to end up seriously ill, or worse. I am happy to return when it is safe for me to do so and when the appropriate protective can and has been put in place.

Whilst some parents/people may not be concerned about the health of the other children and the staff I am!

I just assumed school staff would be rearranged like hospital staff.

So in hospital we look at the workforce as a whole, take all the vulnerable / shielded out of the equation (and they work from home or in back room / school office roles etc) and the workforce that can be in front of the class are. It could be a school office staff member or a student teacher or caretaker who actually is in front of the class but is told what to do by the shielded teacher for example - this happens in hospitals now. It's not always nurses who are in nursing roles now - a lot is done by physios / SLTs / podiatrists etc - not trained to do this but redeployed and expected to get on with it. Not ideal but someone needs to be filling the key roles to keep things going.

Some of the comments on this thread aren’t going to help with teacher retention rates. We need to look after teachers not chase them away from their profession.

In my figures for my school I didn't include the many support staff needed for schools to operate too - admin and office, caretakers and cleaners, lunch time assistants, etc. Add them in and you have even more in the at risk groups too.

Infernotowering - but are those staff in an airless room with 30+ people for an hour at a time, with a fresh lot of 30 people every hour for 5 hours, without cleaning in between and without any PPE yet expected to get up close to those people?

As mentioned, it's the vocal nay-sayers on Mumsnet education boards that I find saddening to read. All this "NO, we can't do that" "It will never work" attitude is so disappointing. Schools and teachers are so, so much better than that

I am not sure how you socially distance to 2 metres when the width of a corridor around a school is less than that without children in it walking down both sides in an orderly fashion. But if you know better, please do tell us?

The emerging evidence points almost entirely the other way - that children are less likely to be infected and that child to adult transmission is quite rare

When is a child not a child? When they reach the age of 12/13/14? Or more? At what point do you stop being a no-risk child and a possible -risk adult? Because for high schools, that is a huge consideration. My own 16 year old is over 6ft tall and wears size 12 shoes. Is he medically speaking still a child?

If child to adult transmission is 'rare', how 'rare'? what increased risks would teachers be taking in a class full of snotty 6 year olds? what about in a class full of 12 year olds or 17 year olds? is that an acceptable risk to teachers and their families? is that what teachers sign up to - risk of a life threatening illness just for going about their job? should we be happy as a nation to have hundreds of thousands of adults put at that additional risk (without taking into account their families) with no PPE or even soap in some schools?!

caretaker who actually is in front of the class but is told what to do by the shielded teacher

This is possibly the funniest thing I’ve read on MN this lockdown. I can just imagine our (very lovely and competent at being caretakers) reactions to this.

Aside from anything else our caretakers are busting a gut keeping schools physically running.

@ChinnyReckon123 just for interest - not all Australian scientists agree with the ideas about schools opening. Found this thread on twitter.
twitter.com/drzoehyde/status/1254339292433747969?s=21

Scooby Doo teaching. If in doubt, pick on the janitor...

I remember our caretaker giving a whole staff lesson on how to use a ladder (so could tick a box to do our displays). It was hilarious

caretaker who actually is in front of the class but is told what to do by the shielded teacher

This is possibly the funniest thing I’ve read on MN this lockdown. I can just imagine our (very lovely and competent at being caretakers) reactions to this.

Aside from anything else our caretakers are busting a gut keeping schools physically running.

How is it any funnier than a paediatric audiology technician who has never been in a hospital being redeployed into a nursing role? Lots of people's roles don't matter any more and a body filling it is all that people want. There is always someone in the background telling them what to do and we've been told that there won't be any accountability if it goes wrong. Why are schools any different? The job needs doing and we're in a new normal. Redeployment of people is the only way to get things going again if key people need shielding.

@lamplamplamo

That NSW study was so seriously flawed that I don’t know where to begin. I does seem like no one in education in Australia is falling for it thought.

@lostmyshityear9 I’ll say again, gently and patiently, that the evidence base is early, patchy, inconclusive and incomplete. No one should be making any statements of fact or policy decisions based on it at this point. You will certainly not goad me into doing so.

I am not advocating any particular stance. I am challenging misinformation dressed up as fact where I see it.