Secondary Teachers, what do you think about going back to school for the last term with social distancing?

[sunshineanddaffodils]

My year 8 and year 10 dc are in the best possible situation at this point. Both have their own computer, space to work, pretty good home learning from school and both are cooperating. However, I am so worried about the impact being off school until September will have on them socially, on their mental well-being let alone the academic side of things. When I think about dc who are less fortunate than mine I feel so anxious and concerned. I’d be so happy to see some sort of phased return to school as soon as possible really. Looking at the stats I’m not concerned about the health any of the dc or staff at the school although obviously wouldn’t expect anyone in the vulnerable categories or dc of the vulnerable to be expected to return (there’s only one teacher at at their school who is shielding because he’s diabetic). I think school should reopen and the vulnerable remain isolated so the virus cannot be passed on to them if dc fo pick it up at school.

My thoughts are that schools should run through the summer this year.

Yes I'd be interested to see where the money's going to come from to pay all the teachers in the country to teach through the summer holidays!

Fate you're not coming across well here at all. Teaching 10 years ago is a different ball game to teaching now.

Schools open for the summer is fine, if you shut them completely for 4 weeks now.

No point in prioritising core subjects dulang if you then redeploy , say, an Art teacher to do GCSE maths ( no offence Art!)

I don’t doubt it! Arts and languages teachers (and PE?) would end up like substitute staff, largely supervising the work set by others - which is shit for kids and teachers alike, but it’s one of the very few paths I can see through this, at least for the first term or two (while the scientists analyse the data and we wait to see how much part-time schooling is influencing the ‘curve’).
I see it as kind of comparable to all the nurses and doctors who have been redeployed, they don’t have the expertise required for ICU, but they at least have an education in the theory of nursing and some transferable professional skills, making them a better option than trying to train randoms.

However, I do think education is about to become worryingly utilitarian. Worrying, because it might suit some political agendas for it to stay that way.

Austerity has already damaged so much of the wider curriculum... I fear you are right.

(Masters in Fine Art over here - not offended, my Maths is shit 😂)

Government have already said there are no plans to open schools over the summer holidays.

Yes, SLT are on video calls, well if they aren't in school which they are, on a rota. There's normally 2 in daily.

I'm not sure how being a Tawny Owl has ANY bearing whatsoever on your suitability to comment.

I mean I have professional qualifications and experience in finance and worked in it before teaching but as I've been not working in it for some time I'd refrain from commenting on their reaction to Coronavirus.

And Ofsted would be getting a complaint from me pretty damn fast if I found out the chair of governors held such antagonistic and derogatory opinions as you, Fate. Your views are totally unaligned with the role of CoG

I know this because I am one too.

Regarding the original question....would love to be back.

I'm just not sure the logistics can be managed.

85% of our rural school kids come on the bus. How is this managed?

We have 1200 kids in a school built for 750. The dining canteen and hall aren't big enough at the best of times.

My room I could get 6 in I reckon, plus me. My HoF is on vulnerable list, along with about 6 other.... as are three pregnant colleagues.

There just won't be enough staff. And if it's part time how do we teach the ones at home and the ones in class.

It'll need some time for planning on an individual school basis but some schools may well not be able to manage.

Looking at the stats I’m not concerned about the health any of the dc or staff at the school

YABVVU. One of my colleagues with no underlying conditions died earlier this week. Childen and Teenagers have died from the virus. If you aren't concerned then you should be.

I would love for this to happen. However, like every other member of school staff I've spoken to since schools had to mostly close, I can't see a way to maintain social distancing in classes of more than 10. I also can't see how that could be managed in a way that's at all helpful to all the students.

I'm pretty upset about it personally, tbh, as what I'm doing now is radically different to the way I normally teach and frankly leaves me with only the parts of my job that I like the least. I'm also going to (hopefully) be on maternity leave from September, so this will be my last experience of teaching for a while.

So for secondary students they are actually getting a better deal being at home than being sat in a classroom with any warm body at the front, even though it doesn't feel like it.

I don’t disagree with any of your post (worth pointing out that not all kids will do well home learning depending on the home and their own learning styles - but then again, some kids will prefer it to normal school) but going back to school in some form is more about easing the lockdown than ensuring quality education, at least in the short term (6 months?)
I’m not saying that’s fair on kids or parents or that I agree with it, just that it’s not entirely about education, more about pandemic management and reintroducing the education environment (and thus the additional services around schools, such as SEN assessment and support, school nurse programme, teachers being important observers for safeguarding and referral to social services etc. Really valuable stuff that largely happens under surface)

People citing the Australian study

Study-In NSW, from March to mid-April 2020, 18

Notes

It is notable that on 23 March 2020 the NSW Premier advised that although schools remained open, parents were encouraged to keep their children at home for online learning. After this date face-to-face attendance in schools decreased significantly and this may have impacted the results of this investigation. Furthermore, school holidays commenced in NSW on Friday 10 April for two weeks.

Seriously?

There is no way to avoid the risk completely.
Teachers are no different to everyone else - you either do your job and get paid, or don't do it and go without pay. For those in a high risk group it's obviously difficult - but I don't see Sainsbury's, the Royal Mail and the NHS continuing to pay staff who have decided it's too risky to open supermarkets/deliver mail/work in hospitals, so how can teachers be saying they can't open schools as it's too risky for school staff?

As a parent with no teaching experience, i'm actually very impressed at how well my DD's school have enabled and engaged how schooling. There's been a few teething problems but that's hardly surprising given how little time there has been to prepare.
I get that schools may be obliged to reopen before it's 100% age which makes me very uncomfortable, but I don't think that the Government is in a position yet to have sufficient information to set a timetable for a return.
Ensuring schools and pupils have the resources to work remotely for now seems like a good idea though.

Those who can, do. Those who can't...

I'm pretty upset about it personally, tbh, as what I'm doing now is radically different to the way I normally teach and frankly leaves me with only the parts of my job that I like the least.

Thank you for all you are doing though, even if it doesn’t feel anything like the profession you trained for right now.

Schools are the glue that holds so many U.K. communities together, and just knowing ours is open for those who need it, and getting a weekly call from my DD’s teacher, is a really welcome reminder that outside our (shielding) door our community still exists.

I think many teachers and schools are struggling at the moment with the idea of what happens when we go back because....we don't know what the rules will be!

I also think it's a waste of time @FATEdestiny if your school is really hypothesising how a return would look when you don't know-

a) When schools will be expected to return. If it's June you have the opportunity for outdoor schooling. If it's September you'll be lucky to get a clear month before the weather sets in. That will impact on class sizes and number of physical classrooms needed - and by that measure, how many staff you need. So you can't work that out until the date is set.

b) if social distancing is going to still be in place or if the idea of the social 'bubble' being spoken about at present is going to be happening instead - so increasing the number of people in contact with each other.

c) how transport will look (which will have an impact on secondary schools and whether parents are going to have to transport their teenagers to or from school.

d) if there is going to be a call out for ex-teachers or those currently off of teaching work for some reason. If so, and enough answer, then the possibility of using remote classrooms - like church halls etc., may be a possibility. But until it's put out there schools just have to assume they have their normal capacity of staff. Which isn't enough for social distancing of the pupils. It's basic maths!

e) if parents will be asked to form a 'parents army' (for instance) to assist in primary schools (with the necessary DBS checks of course although quite a few help in our schools as I did when DS was there).
Again, with those SAHP helping, experienced TAs may be able to step up as teachers (which many do already) and remote teaching venues may be able to be used.

f) If PPE (I mean gloves and/or masks - if we're on community wearing of masks by then) will be a requirement in schools and who for - 300 teachers or 2000 students or both in our case? And we won't know that until the scientists decide.

Surely your school's time, @FATEdestiny, would be better spent sorting out the here and now problems like actually getting more school work out there and supporting parents than looking at something that we don't know about yet?

Yes, the NHS stepped up to the mark. But they knew, basically, what was needed and dealing with a health issue is their job. There's no social distancing in a hospital by the very nature of dealing with sick people so that wasn't even a consideration sadly. Staff know they have to get up close and personal - it's what they do. They also THOUGHT they'd have PPE (that didn't work out so well). We've all now learned that some things promised aren't always forthcoming so people are more wary.

Schools were asked to introduce social distancing if they were staying open for key workers children. So how does that change for the children of the general population? If it's not safe to have no social distancing in a hub school, why would a primary or secondary school re-open without it in place?

At the moment it is natural to say 'social distancing can't be done' or 'we don't have enough teachers' because it's true! But if the government tell Headteachers that they want social distancing, 10 to a class - that's a starting point.

Our school set up as a hub for the children of keyworkers - primary and secondary school pupils - and worked out a programme of homeworking in less than a week. The kids all got computers - most had them already but they loaned out to those who didn't have one for any reason. They organised the free school meal vouchers, reworked buildings - moving computers and equipment - including our school library to allow for space. Our IT people put together a path for parents whose children couldn't get into their computer systems. Our departments are issuing a newsletter to parents and children to keep in touch and to praise those children who are trying very hard. Our safeguarding team are in touch with all those kids and parents who are known to have difficulties at home. All done in a matter of days.

We WILL provide an education for those children when they return but, if we're expected to go by the current rules, a lot of teaching cannot be done 'as normal'. Saying that is being negative is very unfair - it's spurring a conversation that starts 'yes, but what if...' and that's how things change.

but I don't see Sainsbury's, the Royal Mail and the NHS continuing to pay staff who have decided it's too risky to open supermarkets/deliver mail/work in hospitals, so how can teachers be saying they can't open schools as it's too risky for school staff?

Can’t speak for the Royal Mail and sainsbury’s but certainly the NHS are sending staff home on full pay that don’t quite meet the high risk criteria. Occ Health are doing case by case based risk assessments. And Tesco are sending home people in vulnerable groups but not high risk too.

My kids school is now trying to get up to speed with the std req of home teaching they’re finally going to communicate with the kids letting them know what work they want doing , giving them deadlines and marking the work !! I’m ecstatic if they stick to this plan BUT if they do that I’d rather my y10 daughter didn’t go back first, the thought of staff not going back till September and only then tackling the new normal I’d rather the y7s went in first and they lose a load of education time while the school gets used to doing things entirely differently for learning breaks and lunches , god lunches, when someone mentioned the kids will no longer be able to use a keypad to pay for their dinner and they’ll have to be searched for manually I just thought my god yes that’s the sort of thing that would cause hell on Earth!!

I’m not concerned about the health any of the dc or staff at the school

That’s lovely! How kind and thoughtful of you.

It’s impossible to socially distance within an education setting, literally impossible- no way to safely do it at all. Some staff will be older than others, less fit than others and some may have underlying conditions they’re not aware of. Also children are not invincible, some children have died although I appreciate not many.

It’s too risky to send them back right now, just accept it.

Worriedmum54321

There is no way to avoid the risk completely.

No on is saying that there is, (except those that are saying that teachers are saying it)

Teachers are no different to everyone else - you either do your job and get paid, or don't do it and go without pay.

You could always furlough us and see how that goes.

FYI, we are doing our job.

but I don't see Sainsbury's, the Royal Mail and the NHS continuing to pay staff who have decided it's too risky to open supermarkets/deliver mail/work in hospitals, so how can teachers be saying they can't open schools as it's too risky for school staff?

All (with the exception of the NHS) have implemented social distancing or had you forgotten that.

No teacher is asking for special consideration, just the same considerations as everyone else.

Oh and I’m a teacher fwiw, we are still being paid.

@deepwatersolo I meant in the sense that ALL our children are having learning disrupted on some level - even the ones attending school for various reasons at this moment in time. I know all about deprivation because I teach in one of the poorest parts of Yorkshire. But thanks for the reminder 👍🏻

I think you're forgetting that although children generally aren't particularly at risk from COVID they are great carriers of the virus, the children will be sharing it around at school and then taking it home to their parents.

I know this is a very emotive and challenging issue, but making statements like the above simply isn’t ok. It is misinformation.

There is no evidence that supports the above statement.

The emerging evidence points almost entirely the other way - that children are less likely to be infected and that child to adult transmission is quite rare.

That said, the evidence base is early and patchy so no one should be making absolute statements on the issue. You really have to question the motives of anyone doing so.

I'm a teacher. Would be totally happy to be furloughed and leave all the work up to parents and National Oak academy