AIBU to get a bit fucked off at having to protect the NHS?

[Santaclauswhosthat]

This is a healthcare system I've paid into all my life. I don't think everyone who works in it is a hero and the vast majority of them aren't underpaid. It's ranked 16th in the world and has the worst cancer outcomes for any developed country. It's not very good. Nonetheless it's the only healthcare system open to me right now. But I can't access it. My operation had been cancelled and I can't get a consultant appointment. The GPs aren't seeing patients face to face. I've already had one tumour removed that was on the turn. I'm worried that I may have another. I have no way of finding out if this is the case. A family member has already died of covid 19 after being denied treatment for three days during which repeated calls to the ambulance service were made whereupon his mother was told she should only ring again if his lips turned blue. He is dead. Right now. The NHS didn't protect him. It isn't protecting me either. What is the point of the NHS, exactly? Most clinics are closed or running at half mast. GPs aren't seeing anyone. NHS staff get shopping hours and free food and fuck knows what else and we are all dying protecting them.

OP the NHS is OPEN for you.

NHS chief executive Sir Simon Stevens said: “While NHS staff have pulled out all the stops to deal with coronavirus they have also worked hard to ensure that patients who don’t have COVID-19 can safely access essential services.

“So whether you or loved one have the symptoms of a heart attack or stroke, are a parent worried about their child or have concerns about conditions such as cancer you should seek help in the way you always would.

Ignoring problems can have serious consequences – now or in the future.”

www.england.nhs.uk/2020/04/help-us-help-you-nhs-urges-public-to-get-care-when-they-need-it/

don'tdisturb

Your contribution to this thread is to dismiss valid criticism of a health care system which is failing to treat patients. Your fanatical defence of the status quo means you need to block out the multiple posters on this thread describing positive experiences elsewhere and dismiss those describing negative experiences with the NHS. How blinkered.

Yes the medical staff are great but the system is not.

^^This. I’ve not doubt there are many dedicated members of staff who deserve all the praise, but it seems to me that as someone else said the NHS has lost sight and we’re supposed to be grateful for substandard care that we’ve paid into all our lives. It’s free at the point of delivery, it is not free and many of us then also pay for private healthcare insurance which is widely accepted as superior, quicker and more efficient and allows us to get back to work quicker when we’re ill.

The implications of corona are going to be much wider than the deaths from the virus itself.

This is a very refreshing thread to read through. I think a few months ago many responses to the OP would have been quite different, but clearly people’s eyes have been opened lately or people have just had enough of the guilt tripping and feel much more comfortable about saying what they really think. I completely agree with the notion that the NHS is the ‘holy cow’ of the UK - it’s a real propaganda buzzword, and the government really do make the most of it. ‘Protect the NHS’ - putting the onus and guilt on us, when really the ‘protection’ that it needed was financial protection that they have not provided. Convincing a worryingly large amount of people that just because something is ‘free’ (it isn’t by the way...) that it’s ok for it to be substandard and that we can’t expect better from it - that to expect better is to be ‘ungrateful’, again putting the guilt on us. That criticism of the NHS = criticism and ingratitude towards hardworking NHS staff, (quite a few posters on here still very much sheepishly going along with that trope unfortunately...) The NHS is not one sentient or holy being - we need to stop thinking of it as such. It’s embarrassing when grown adults can’t think more openly and critically about something like this.

Out of the G7 countries, UK health spending per person is the second lowest. If we want a better system we need to fund it more.

I agree, and I work for the NHS. Most of my colleagues would agree with you aswell. This 'hero' thing has really got to peoples heads, and the way I have saw people fighting about free food and ringing around everywhere demanding it is absolutely disgusting. We should be supporting the small businesses ffs not acting like animals over food. We are all being paid still, the small business that many staff are demanding food from, are not. I would love people who don't work the the NHS to have an insight into what actually goes on. It all needs to stop.

The hero worship is very odd. My neighbour keeps reminding us that his daughter 'works for the NHS' (she's some sort of clinic nurse for diabetes so not in a hospital or front line). He insists everyone on our road go out to 'make some noise' for his daughter to show her how much we 'value' her. I've never met his daughter. I'm sure she's a perfectly nice person, but I'm not hero worshiping the woman every Thursday evening so neighbour feels better. He gets very cross with anyone who does not go outside like it's a personal insult to him. I wish the Thursday clap would stop because it's bringing out the nasty side in some people.

Yes, using 3 other healthcare systems quite a lot in 3 other countries does not qualify me for an opinion on the NHS

can't get my daughter seen because the doctors at my surgery are too important to risk themselves by doing face to face appointments

What a nasty ignorant post. Do you really not understand its about putting the patients they would normally see face to face at risk? Vile.

Out of interest Frangipanini, what specifically is it about the way the healthcare systems you experienced were funded that you think resulted in better care?

@Mintychoc1 I believe the vast majority of Doctors are kind people who genuinely have a passion for helping people. But I don’t think they have the best tools or conditions for the job in the UK. I don’t believe the NHS is a healthcare system that is functioning at an acceptable standard. You guys are doing your best, but you can’t fulfil your potential and be as effective as is necessary with things as they are. I’m not Doctor bashing, I’m bashing the infrastructure.

We had a wonderful GP at my surgery who was a total breath of fresh air. He moved to Australia and I don’t blame him. They are lucky to have him and I hope he has better working conditions there.

What is really annoting reading is people being so critical of a system they know do little about and little interest in learning unless to find things to prove their point.

We have one of the lowest healthcare system cost per capita. 4070 8n 1919 compared to 10586 in the US, 4965 in France, 5986 in Germany, 6187 in Norway, 4766 in Japan.

Two countries who have lower figures are Spain and Italy at 3323 and 3428. But, they also have siginificant lower obesity levels. Obesity is linked to diabetes, diabetes is the highest cost to the nhs.

So unlike what people think of the nhs based on their own very minuscule experience of healthcare, the nhs is considered excellent value for money.

Op I am sitting here getting increasingly angry too. More than angry. I think many NHS workers are absolute heroes and I am grateful to everyone putting themselves at risk to help others right now. But there are so many stories floating around about half-empty hospitals and virus patients not getting treated until it's too late and Germany is a constant reminder that there is another way of doing this. The Tories have got blood on their hands. It's all an absolute shambles. I am hoping Boris has been humbled by his brush with death and things start to change but it will still be too little too late.

Chesneyhawkes1

Do you think that you could have been waved through because all those that are on the system and need a scan can’t actually get one as they have been cancelled

Yes, using 3 other healthcare systems quite a lot in 3 other countries does not qualify me for an opinion on the NHS
Haha, a lot! Get real. And no, it really doesn't qualify you indeed!

@BovaryX, very happy to have discussions with people who can talk science, economy and statistic.

Those who judge a service based on their very limited access to a service and draw insulting conclusions at a national level are of little interest.

I don't really mind having an NHS particularly if we could make it cover a lot less and ideally have those who cause their own problems pay for them as it is on the whole cheaper than most other systems (although perhaps not for those of us including of course doctors who pay an awful lot of tax).

However the idea we all have to like it as if it were some kind of replacement for God is very strange. We are a liberal democracy and people are allowed all kinds of views. I want to live in a UK where people are free to have any views they like.

You have had a horrendous time op, and it’s difficult to always think completely clearly when emotions are running high. I’m so sorry for your loss and the situation you are currently in .

I work for the NHS and can say that it’s not just frontline services which are working their socks off, support services are too (GPs can now see patients via video consult because of the IT teams doing 70 hour weeks to get the kit and enable it (no one will mention that it could have been done months ago but GPs didn’t want it until their fear of covid was greater than their fear of technology) - HOWEVER not all parts of the NHS are busy though there is a lot of redeployment and volunteering being done.

The fact that over 20 thousand people in the UK have currently died of covid, not to mention the uncounted thousands of others who have/will die through unintended consequences (not wanting to burden the service by seeking help, operations cancelled etc) and that our economy is tanking is a direct result of us all having to stay inside to protect the NHS. The reason it needs protecting is as many others have said, because it has been underfunded for decades. Are there areas which could be improved? Definitely. But what isn’t always taken into consideration are the millions of hours of unpaid work people in the NHS do through goodwill, because they care about their jobs and the contribution they make to services and patients. Nothing is perfect, but there’s more good than bad in the NHS.

There’s few easy answers to the current crisis but I hope it will at the very least start some much needed conversations about how we want to serve our nation’s health needs moving forward.

Those blaming the NHS for GP decisions should take it up with the GP. GPs are private organisations
Horrible comments towards NHS staff who do not make the decisions. I'm angry that people are being denied treatment when large parts of hospitals are empty
Decisions about covid have been made above individual trust level so it has been made by the politicians. Take it up with them. And our press, why are that not asking why people are not being given treatment until such a late stage
I would love an NHS similar to much of Europe but we have a Tory government and many of them have shares in US health companies. They will look to the US model and many of them have openly said they favour an insurance model.
I don't want an insurance company arguing my treatment is not necessary. I also don't want a surgeon to benefit financially from decisions made about my treatment

Oh And yes please stop clapping and we are not heroes

• is there a middle ground such as treating us with respect.

Personally I don’t think this is political

People are just getting the sort of treatment we have as a family been getting from the NHS for decades.

Doctors who can’t or won’t diagnose, followed by months, sometimes years of being wrongly treated.

Before we scrape enough money together to go private and get cured.

I haven't had any free food and haven't witnessed anyone being greedy either.

@Oliversmumsarmy my initial biopsy was February so before lockdown.

And the hospital treating me have said no cancer treatments have been affected there. So I don't think so.

Also a work colleague had the same cancer as me last year. Her treatment plan was different to mine, but the initial scans etc followed pretty much the same time line.

You're free to move to a country where you seem the health care to be better if you wish. I'm proud to work for the NHS and of my colleagues currently working in spite of the lack of PPE. I'm not as I'm on maternity leave. The majority of staff are in fact underpaid and it's the minority who are overpaid such as clinical directors etc. Being in your position may warrant some compassion but that still doesn't give you a right to slag the staff off as if they deserve nothing for risking their own lives trying to save and many as possible and it certainly doesn't make you anymore important.

I have only had to sees a GP once in 15 years as I am probably the luckiest person in England - don't seem to get ill (so far touch wood)......

However for stuff the family has needed the NHS has not been that great. Eg my son wanted verrucae removed. NHS tried for a year or two but our GP only did that treatment in the summer (in the winter they were too busy with old people and flu) so it was never cured. I spent hundreds on him going to someone to have it removed privately. Other son needed a small operation - no NHS availability I paid privately. Two sons bad acne as teenagers - GP prescribed stuff but did not work, I paid for someone brilliant on Harley st.

Even my NHS doctor father who worked for the NHS for the 1950s until he was 63 had to spend £130,000 (his life savings) in his last year on dementia care at home - cradle to grave it is not really there for many of us so why should I pay hundreds of thousands of income tax towards it. perhaps never year we could reduce tax rates by a third (about what we spend on the NHS) and have a paid for system instead - even in Ireland you pay something in many cases and France.... Let us not even talk about my NHS births - hospital maternity unit put into special measures (30 years ago) soon after as almost worst in the country in its time.... so paid for private midwives for baby 4 to be born at home - nicest birth of all.

Decisions about covid have been made above individual trust level so it has been made by the politicians.

So why are some hospitals continuing with cancer treatment yet others have shut up shop?? Different hospitals/trusts are making different decisions, so it's NOT being decided at politician level is it??