High Earners not in "bullshit jobs"?

[VirginWestCoast]

Inspired by a couple of recent threads, the"bullshit jobs" one and the one asking how posters became well off.
Mumsnet seems to have people on generally higher incomes than the UK as a whole, with people quite nonchalantly saying that they and/or their DH are on 150k+ and a lot of people were saying on the Bullshit jobs thread that they were very well paid.
In the other thread, lots of people out their success down to sheer hard work, which I don't doubt, but lots of people work hard in worthwhile (ones which are pretty much universally recognised as worthwhile) jobs but are never going to be on 150k+ like nurses, teachers, cleaners, care workers. I know there are others and these are the ones most often trotted out but bare with me:
So it cannot just be working hard, it has to be working hard in the right areas (finance etc, I'd assume) to be well off if you aren't born into it or inheriting it.
And yet, while you may have, for example, doctors on 70k or so, the 150k+ group don't seem to include the typical "worthwhile" jobs (though I know this may well be down to me not being very familiar with the jobs in finance, senior management etc)

So my question is this:
If you are a high earner, do you feel that your job is socially useful? "Bullshit job"? Something else entirely? Do you think that what you're paid is fair?
Also, with regards to hard work, what did you have to do to qualify for your job role/ how long did it take?

This is just for personal curiosity so any answers are greatly appreciated.

I am almost sure I earn less than a brain surgeon, so it’s fair ;)

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Many high earners did everything they could to become a high earner. That often includes many of the following:

• taking a risk after school/graduation by not jumping at the first “obvious” job/career
• identifying what their relative strength or “competitive advantage” is compared to the rest of the population and working hard to make it even stronger. In many cases this is not what they liked best or were passionate about but what they were good at (there’s a good book about this subject which dispenses of the “pursue your passion” idea which, for most people is bad advice. It usually won’t bring a good source of income and won’t make you fulfilled. People are mostly fulfilled by doing a job they are good atm which in turn earns them money and social respect)
• were willing to upsticks to a less desirable location or even change countries
• earn shit money for many years working toward their goal, while their exclassmates were earning twice the salary and buying a property.
• were willing to work antisocial hours

@reasonwith - yes for me age and experience has led me to earning a relatively high salary (am overseas now and actually earned more in London at a large bank HO - but overall my package, no tax and good bonus means this will (hopefully) be my last FT role before earlyish retirement).

I, by chance, chose the right subject to study at masters level leading me to a few niche roles connected to the financial sector (seems to be a few in this bracket). I coast now tbh - rarely work past 5, loads of leave and short commute! I definitely don’t work ‘hard’ (whatever that means!). Why me? It’s all down to luck - nothing else imo (luck as to access to education, luck that I got my fathers IQ rather than my mothers, luck I had some great mentors etc.).

I come across UHNWI in my role - they don’t make me feel warm and fuzzy they make me feel sick!

Cam77

Good points. Most are true for me.

@0v9c99f9g9d939d9f9g9h8h maybe DH would earn more if he wore a suit

Cam77, very good points. Eg my husband and I moved hundreds of miles to London for my career so we never had any of the grandparents around when babies came to help with that. etc.

On this question " reasonwith Fri 24-Apr-20 15:59:52

For those of you on reasonably high incomes, does your age and experience factor in this?"

Yes for most people. Eg trainee solicitors in London (after 4 years of passing exams) start in the good firms on £40k (where most solicitors cannot get a job - you have to be best of the best to get in - I applied to about 139 firms and had 25 interviews over 6 months to get mine whilst a student despite being almost the best in the year). They will often work all night (no over time) and most weekends too. (again no over time pay).

then after the 2 years on that you might if they keep you on (no guarantee - I was not kept on when I qualified) you may get on to £100k a year before tax (remember masses of tax comes off and these days 9% graduate tax too). Also most of the high paid jobs are not secure - so redundancies for example are going on at law firms at present, some are being forced to take 20% pay cuts and I remember all this happening time and again over the years are recessions hit. Same in banking and many other private sector jobs - you can lose your job at the drop of a hat. You need to be happy to accept that kind of risk. you may need to move - one of my daughters is an in house solicitor and she had moved jobs to get higher pay each time and it's worked.

I work in Financial Services. I love the work with the clients who come to really value the advice etc. However I don’t like many aspects of it. Very grubby in terms of money with many people working in the industry who have no morals.

It’s well paid ish but not spectacular.

Decent up north though so brings a decent of not luxurious standard of living.

Not sure if it’s a bullshit job or not. I suppose the clients would say not, but many people would say so.

It’s probably 50% bullshit.

Husband is a periodontist, has just qualified as one. Been a dentist for 10 years. Has spent 70K on his degree/post degree and spends around 20K on insurances to be a specialist. He was on track to earn 100/150K this year but now he can't work. I'm a dental nurse earning 21K and I'm currently the breadwinner, as I was when he was studying. It sucks!

@reasonwith I work in the Construction /Development side of a large Housing association, but we a lot of build private sale properties too which helps the salaries.

Echo what's said below. When I look at what sets me apart, it's:

• good but not necessity brilliant a levels and Uni
• I worked really hard, both academically and in part time jobs throughout being a student
• non academic work helped me understand how to work with people and get on in a big corporate
• i chose a profession which is well paid and then specialised in an industry area which was also well paid, I didn't do that for money but the areas interested me, I've probably stayed because of the money
• I worked insanely hard in my twenties and early thirties, 12-14 hour days every day, no hobbies worked at least 6 hrs every weekend. I was looking at some nice jewellery I have from that period and remembering that it was only bought as I couldn't think of anything else I wanted/ had run out of time before my birthday

I have a really good mix of friends from all sorts of backgrounds, and with all sorts of jobs. I don't think any could do (by which I mean really would put up with my job) or would want to:

• as I've got more senior I have more control, but it's still a 12 hour day, which is tough with young kids
• we live in London within 45 minutes commute of our workplaces, we love our house, but it would be distinctly average to anyone outside London
• we don't have family or friends nearby and 40% of my pay goes on childcare (more if I add in the private nursery and school)
• my work is at the top end of my chosen field and constantly interesting, but it is a brutal, highly stressful, unforgiving work environment with zero job security

I regularly ask myself why we do this as my husband and I set our alarms for 4 am, but we've made a life for ourselves and in truth you become trapped by the high wage,

Some of the responses here made me sick. I work in healthcare, have for 20+ years, an earn a fraction of what people are mentioning above. Most people will want to justify their salaries, and how responsible they are, like the posts above. What is more responsible than medically treating someone? Or teaching the next generation? But that is not as important as the things above if remuneration is indicative. And what is even worse is that, in order to hang on to even more of their inflated salaries, a lot of high earners have consistently voted for a government which has consistently defunded the NHS and stopped pay rises for staff like nurses. As a society our values are seriously messed up.

I'm in Software Sales. Specifically in cloud computing and big data. You like the benefits of online shopping Amazon and Netflix? Think about the computing power behind these giants and what it takes to serve these customers globally, securely and instantly. Computing power that is used for medical research. So whilst my job is well paid - the dependencies and impact is high if things go wrong.my customers could lose millions and millions of $$$ per second if we don't deliver.

It's a bullshit job as I'm extremely well paid. When you're paid more way than a surgeon well that says a lot. I'm not really bright. I just make sure I'm really generous with my time for my customers, always arrive early, and make a point of studying every day just enough for me to keep ahead of the game. My job makes companies and their investors wealthier. My job revolves around money ROI and profit. But then I think about the good our technology brings and that helps ease the guilt a bit.

LadyL, lots of doctors are paid a lot as are heads of schools and even heads of nursing. Plenty of doctors earn vast sums particularly in London.

dreadp, very similar to me over the years as your post. At one point 50% of each of our net salaries went on full time childcare for the first baby.

My job isn’t socially useful, no

I am a senior project manager in the field of medicines registration so not entirely bullshit. I have an industrial chemistry degree and 20 years of experience. I manage global projects worth 10s of millions of dollars. I have meetings anywhere from 6am to midnight and average a 10hr working day. I sometimes do Middle East meetings on a Sunday.

I like my job but it’s hard and tiring and relentless sometimes.

‘Mickey Mouse’ jobs generally tend to exit in public sector. In the private sector, if a business is stupid enough to let people lounge around in these Mickey Mouse jobs, they will eventually go out of business by not being competitive enough.

OP I assume you are referring to high paid jobs in the private sector with complicated titles. From the outside these jobs may appear pointless, but larger organizations tend to Super specialists in their fields and as such need specialist roles to scale their operations. These super specialist roles at scale can look like the type of job you refer to.

Either way, these jobs in private sector and their tax contribution is what is coming so called ‘worthwhile’ people in jobs so people should think before they sneer.

What the hell is a socially useful job anyway? Who pays for socially useful jobs to exist. There would be no socially useful jobs if high earners in private sector didn’t support the economy.

NHS funding was ring fenced in the austerity years when compared to other services. You need successful business to ensure everyone else is employed and paying taxes and companies are paying tax too.

If you were a dr you could look forward to very good earnings. Lots of people who earn well are equivalent to doctors but in their own field of professional work or qualifications.

My DH is a Structural Engineer. Would you like high rise buildings designed by nurses or would you prefer appropriately qualified professionals to do it? Would you prefer that they collapsed? Lots of jobs make us safer. Design of roads, cars, gas installation etc. They have a value and health isn’t the only responsible job. Train to be a dr and you’ll earn well. In fact after 5 years of graduating, medics earn more than any other degree holder. So it’s not all bad!

So I earn what would be considered a very large amount of money. Is it a bullshit job - I don't know - I am responsible for millions of pounds and lots of jobs. What I do know is that out of all my mates I am the one that has a two hour commute each way to work and is constantly 'on call' we never switch off even Xmas day. Whilst there has undoubtedly been some luck involved I have definitely had to do things such as getting up at 4am every day to get to work in time, working long hours, answering emails well into the evening that most of my friends wouldn't be prepare to do. The job is stressful, high pressured I am responsible for a lot of money so whether someone would say it's bullshit or not I think I deserve it!

We’re both public sector employees and always have been. Admittedly we’ve a business arm, but that’s not yet our main income. We both have a commitment to public service and definitely not in ‘bullshit’ jobs. Both key workers at the moment and I’m busier than ever throughout the pandemic.

I'm very well paid. And my job is kind of bullshit. But it creates a lot of value indirectly. I don't want to say what it is because it's so specialised.

It's also very difficult. I struggle to recruit people into the team who have sufficient learning agility and the right personality to do it well. Or the right work ethic, commitment and attention to detail.

Success isn't just about hard work. That's a very small part in fact. For me it's networking, it's taking risk, it's sticking your head above the parapet and getting yourself known, volunteering for projects, not staying somewhere because it's comfortable, looking ahead at the next bits of experience and skills you need, being necky enough to go for that job even though you don't quite have all the spec, recognising your transferable skills rather than thinking you've got to have direct experience of everything advertised, it's winging it, maybe even a bit of faking it until you make it, it's being proactive, it's having goals.

The people I know who have jumped ahead in years rather than decades do a mix of the above.

And I think all that stuff works better to get promoted in bullshit jobs

LadyLightning Plenty of people working in healthcare earning very good incomes. Plenty of people working in education earning very good salaries. It’s not about how long you’ve worked in those fields butbwhat you’ve done with that time.