To think some people need to get a grip!

[CurrentBun1981]

There are clearly those who are being far too nonchalant about the current situation, but tbh I'm probably encountering more of the slightly hysterical/OTT types right now.

For example, my friend has been frantically discussing on FB how best to sterilise her shopping and has implemented some ridiculously elaborate system of debagging shopping in the garage, putting the bags in the outside bin, wiping everything down with sanitising wipes, then walking back to put these in the bin too, before then leaving everything in quarantine for a couple days in the garage fridge. She's now worried about whether she's already brought the virus into the house on her shoes or her dog as she hadn't thought of that till she read it, and is discussing this on FB right now, trying to make another process involving outdoor footwear, indoor footwear, and 'transitional' footwear (presumably slippers from garage into house or something).

Her view is that she wants to go 110% in ensuring she doesn't catch it, which is fine. However, she doesn't do anything like this in any other areas of her life, which I suspect is the same thing for many others acting similarly.

For example, I've never seen her check the tyre pressure on her car and am 100% certain she doesn't do this weekly as is recommended. I'm pretty certain she doesn't know the legal tread depth and how to check it as she often needs new tyres at MOT stage (presumably illegally low on tread at this point).

What is it about this recent crisis that's invoking fear in the types of people who rarely use their car mirrors except to check their make up?

I'll concede that theoretically you could probably bring the virus into your house on your feet if you stepped in somebody's spit etc, but the likelihood has got to be tiny, and this is all ultimately to avoid catching a disease which will give the majority of victims 'mild' symptoms and is statistically extremely unlikely to kill her in the unlikely chance she catches it - I'm convinced the government might just let us crack on and catch it if it wasn't for the unmanageable strain on the NHS.

I've had what I suppose you'd call 'walking' pneumonia (and was extremely shocked to be diagnosed as such). I was ill, but the 'feeling ill' bit of it didn't exceed a typical bout of flu. I can see how that might have been categorised as 'mild'.

The fact that the virus can survive on a certain surface (like lots of other viruses too - coronavirus doesn't, AFAIK, have some amazing staying power unlike all other microbes), or even that transmission is theoretically possible from a surface, by no means necessarily translates into that route being a viable one in real life. Not a medic, but it seems to me that sanitising everything we come into contact with even though the risk is negligible or theoretical risks us denying our immune systems the constant small stimuli they need to stay fit and responsive when a major infection comes along - denying them their daily exercise, so to speak.

What has boggled me during this is the number of people for whom regular handwashing is a new thing. We have always washed our hands whenever we have come in from being out somewhere, and after unpacking the shopping, as well as after the loo etc (the number of people using public loos in normal times who think a quick rinse or nothing suffices is truly shocking).

I also think that the comparisons to HIV a couple of posters have made (here or elsewhere) are valid. Like this now, that was a new and frightening disease, which seemed to come from an 'other' (or 'othered') community, and media reporting did its part in whipping up panic. I also think a lot of the precautions people are taking (as well as following an elaborated, not actually existent version of 'the rules') are stemming from a kind of magical thinking, that if I do everything right I won't 'get it'.

This is a severe risk to some, no two ways about it. But we need to keep the discourse factual if we are to come out of this without having lost our collective mind - which will help nobody, least of all those actually needing medical or psychological help, as we renormalise.

The fact that traces of virus rna has been detected on surfaces in a laboratory after a period of time is different to saying these surfaces are a common vector. Has there been any case in the world where someone has been infected by shopping - ie they've been truly self isolating for weeks, received a parcel and then come down with cv? Not that I've heard.

People are terrible at assessing risk but I'd expect that after reading MN for a few years. Every thread where someone contemplates leaving children alone for a few minutes, for taking the bins out or using the bathroom. The responses - omg no they'll die, a mad man will come in an kidnap them, the house will burst in to flames. Maybe I'm unusual but so far my house has never burned down in the time I've been peeing.

Oh and the best ones: Q - is it OK to leave my kids in the car while I pay for petrol? A - omg nooo you could get hit by a car and they'd be left all alone and could die, take them with you! What, so you can all be hit by a car together

We've been in lockdown for three weeks now. Is there a noticeable difference in infection rate between people who are disinfecting shoes, not touching gates, quaratining post and shopping etc, and those who are just sticking to the government guidelines and washing hands when they come in?

Health is more important at the moment

The planet doesn’t know that and why plastic bags and non biodegradable wipes are being chucked everywhere. I find the use of endless single use bags and wipes truly selfish behaviour at any time. And I haven’t seen any such government advice, most people here are still taking their bags to the shop. Bags could have been touched by other people or not any more hygienic than the shopping you are frantically washing down with non biodegradable wipes or other chemicals 🤷🏼‍♀️

Also how long will it go on for? 2/3 years till there’s a vaccine of people behaving like this and creating waste?

How many people were doing all this a month ago when your risk of community transmission was much more than it will be now?

@SunshineOnLeithh😁

What has boggled me during this is the number of people for whom regular handwashing is a new thing. We have always washed our hands whenever we have come in from being out somewhere, and after unpacking the shopping, as well as after the loo etc (the number of people using public loos in normal times who think a quick rinse or nothing suffices is truly shocking).

I must admit I fall into this category and am a bit embarrassed at my own mingingness. I have always washed them before food and after the toilet, after coughing or sneezing, but it makes me actually shudder now to think of things like going to work, touching the keypad and doors and then just going and sitting at my desk. I wonder how many other bugs I’ve picked up over the years due to handwashing being a bit less than optimal. My husband works in a food preparation environment and has always been more stringent than I am with this and always picks up less bugs than me

CatteStreet - I don’t think most people are used to not touching their faces when out and about - no pushing strands of hair off your face, no rubbing your eyes, no scratching your nose, no wiping the drink or crumbs off the sides of your mouth, no resting your face in your hands etc. And I expect the shopping cleansing is to avoid feeling the need to wash their hands every time they touch anything in the fridge etc, etc, just in case they touch their faces again. Paranoid hand washing is absolutely nothing like normal, regular hand washing, especially now people think their hands will be dirty and dangerous again the minute they have touched anything!

"How many people were doing all this a month ago when your risk of community transmission was much more than it will be now?"

I'm not convinced my risk was higher a month ago as there are more people with CV around now even though I'm not going out much. We were nearly in lockdown a month ago so I presume a lot of people were doing it.

"I must admit I fall into this category and am a bit embarrassed at my own mingingness. I have always washed them before food and after the toilet, after coughing or sneezing, but it makes me actually shudder now to think of things like going to work, touching the keypad and doors and then just going and sitting at my desk. I wonder how many other bugs I’ve picked up over the years due to handwashing being a bit less than optimal."

Too much handwashing is bad for the skin. In normal times, it's not necessary to be constantly washing your hands so you're doing it right.
Before this crisis, I only washed my hands after the toilet, before cooking for others or after touching something dirty. I don't regret that at all. Things are different now.

Who on earth checks their tyre pressure every week?!

People have lost the plot and the media and the WHO are to blame.

We will all get this virus eventually.

The lock down is to SLOW the spread, not stop it.

People don't seem to understand that we have immune systems. We come into contact with bacteria and viruses all day everyday. A working immune system stops them from making you ill. If you wash your hands too much, disinfect too much, you'll fuck your immune system up.

The approx 5% of people that the virus will kill will die regardless unless a vaccine comes out like tomorrow. I'm sorry but the lock down is not to protect those people. There is about 15% of people that will get the virus and will need hospital treatment to recover. Those are the people are are trying to protect. Because if it spreads too quick and there are no hospital beds left then people in that 15% will start dying needlessly.

Stop disinfecting your shopping and your house, chances are the stuff your using isn't strong egough to kill the virus anyway.

Accept the fact that you will get this maybe even a few times, covid19 will become a part of life, like flu or norovirus, and for the vast majority it will be no worse than a cold - for those that do get seriously ill, just hope we still have a NHS to help you.

So many experts on this thread ...

The approx 5% of people that the virus will kill

5% of people who get Covid19 will die? That's a huge over exaggeration. About 3.4% of REPORTED cases die. That's not taking into account the much larger numbers who get it mildly and never set foot in a hospital or GP surgery. It's probably in reality fewer than 1% of people for whom it's fatal.

Stop it with the blatant scaremongering.

It does feel a bit gross now to touch a keypad and then go and sit at my desk though @Gwenhwyfar. Hopefully I won’t become uber paranoid but I’m definitely going to keep the handwashing up a bit!

Most people will now be in the habit of better personal hygiene, so we can only hope that the majority continue to wash hand regularly after it's all over and be more aware of hand rails, touch pads, door handles, etc., and try to catch coughs/sneezes. Can't be a bad thing at all.

@kazzyhoward

Are you not worried about the eve rising amount of autoimmune disease? I'd be very wary of people trying to eliminate any and all microbes, certainly for children.

Are you not worried about the eve rising amount of autoimmune disease? I'd be very wary of people trying to eliminate any and all microbes, certainly for children.
What rubbish.
How are people eliminating all microbes?
My children are still playing in the garden, in the house, kissing and cuddling each other. Everything is full of the stuff.
Humans didn’t evolve to live in the kind of overcrowded indoor settings we use now so this is all just random rubbish people are talking about.
So a few months of extra higiene is going to lead to autoimmune disease?

Read kazzy's post, she is advocating for a long term increase in the habitual elimination of microbes. That will have benefits as well as costs. Both are ill-defined. The world is complex and messy. Some people really don't recognise that.

Are you not worried about the eve rising amount of autoimmune disease? I'd be very wary of people trying to eliminate any and all microbes, certainly for children.

No, because people will always be spreading germs, even with better personal hygiene - but the spread will be less, not eliminated. I'm not suggesting we all go around with haz-chem suits on. I'm suggesting people wash their hands more and are more aware of the surfaces they're touching - there's a massive difference between reduction and elimination.

I agree with @jazzyhoward
People were way too relaxed before. I was fed up of people sneezing and blowing their noses and not washing their hands, coughing everywhere...

"People were way too relaxed before. I was fed up of people sneezing and blowing their noses and not washing their hands, coughing everywhere..."

Before was different. Unless you're immunocompromised, this wouldn't have been dangerous to you.
If we can get used to coughing in our elbows, that will be good, but I doubt it will ever come naturally to me having been shouted at so much as a child that I should put my hand over my mouth to cough.

@Kazzyhoward

But the purpose of hand washing is to eliminate germs on one's hands no? I'd be wary of leading too sanitised a life. It really is not clear that would be helpful. Obviously if you have the flu it's different, but washing your hands after being in the garden or had a wee? Not so sure.

Immunology is a really interesting area innit?

I wish I was a scientist.

Surely everybody washes their hands after having a wee!
I can’t believe anyone wouldn’t unless they were stuck at the top of a mountain with no water available to them