To remind you this about nurse's pay?

[CeibaTree]

A list of every MP that voted against the nurse’s pay rise.
Remember how they clapped and cheered:

Dominic Raab (CONSERVATIVE)
Boris Johnson (CONSERVATIVE)
Michael Gove (CONSERVATIVE)
Rishi Sunak (CONSERVATIVE)
Priti Patel (CONSERVATIVE)
Jacob Rees-Mogg (CONSERVATIVE)
Matt Hancock (CONSERVATIVE)
John Redwood (CONSERVATIVE)
Chris Grayling (CONSERVATIVE)
Sajid Javid (CONSERVATIVE)
Tobias Ellwood (CONSERVATIVE)
Jeremy Hunt (CONSERVATIVE)
Nicky Morgan (CONSERVATIVE)
Grant Shapps (CONSERVATIVE)
David Davies (CONSERVATIVE)
David Davis (CONSERVATIVE)
Crispin Blunt (CONSERVATIVE)
James Brokenshire (CONSERVATIVE)
James Cleverly (CONSERVATIVE)
Damian Green (CONSERVATIVE)
Dominic Grieve (CONSERVATIVE)
Theresa May (CONSERVATIVE)
Kenneth Clarke (CONSERVATIVE)
Damian Collins (CONSERVATIVE)
Nadine Dorries (CONSERVATIVE)
Iain Duncan Smith (CONSERVATIVE)
Philip Hammond (CONSERVATIVE)
George Eustice (CONSERVATIVE)
Zac Goldsmith (CONSERVATIVE)
Stephen Hammond (CONSERVATIVE)
Andrea Leadsom (CONSERVATIVE)
Dr Liam Fox (CONSERVATIVE)
Sir Michael Fallon (CONSERVATIVE)
Sir Paul Beresford (CONSERVATIVE)
Sir Oliver Letwin (CONSERVATIVE)
Sir Nicholas Soames (CONSERVATIVE)
Elizabeth Truss (CONSERVATIVE)
Theresa Villiers (CONSERVATIVE)
Nadhim Zahawi (CONSERVATIVE)
Justin Tomlinson (CONSERVATIVE)
Michael Tomlinson (CONSERVATIVE)
Martin Vickers (CONSERVATIVE)
John Whittingdale (CONSERVATIVE)
Sir Henry Bellingham (CONSERVATIVE)
Sir Peter Bottomley (CONSERVATIVE)
Sir William Cash (CONSERVATIVE)
Sir Alan Duncan (CONSERVATIVE)
Sir Roger Gale (CONSERVATIVE)
Sir Oliver Heald (CONSERVATIVE)
Sir Greg Knight (CONSERVATIVE)
Sir Edward Leigh (CONSERVATIVE)
Sir Patrick McLoughlin (CONSERVATIVE)
Dame Caroline Spelman (CONSERVATIVE)
Sir Desmond Swayne (CONSERVATIVE)
Sir Hugo Swire (CONSERVATIVE)
Anna Soubry (CONSERVATIVE)
Owen Paterson (CONSERVATIVE)
Stephen Metcalfe (CONSERVATIVE)
Johnny Mercer (CONSERVATIVE)
Kit Malthouse (CONSERVATIVE)
Nigel Evans (CONSERVATIVE)
Nigel Adams (CONSERVATIVE)
Bim Afolami (CONSERVATIVE)
Adam Afriyie (CONSERVATIVE)
Peter Aldous (CONSERVATIVE)
Lucy Allan (CONSERVATIVE)
Heidi Allen (CONSERVATIVE)
Stuart Andrew (CONSERVATIVE)
Edward Argar (CONSERVATIVE)
Victoria Atkins (CONSERVATIVE)
Richard Bacon (CONSERVATIVE)
Kemi Badenoch (CONSERVATIVE)
Steve Baker (CONSERVATIVE)
Harriett Baldwin (CONSERVATIVE)
Dr Phillip Lee (CONSERVATIVE)
Dr Thérèse Coffey (CONSERVATIVE)
Dr Caroline Johnson (CONSERVATIVE)
Dr Julian Lewis (CONSERVATIVE)
Dr Andrew Murrison (CONSERVATIVE)
Dr Matthew Offord (CONSERVATIVE)
Dr Sarah Wollaston (CONSERVATIVE)
Dr Dan Poulter (CONSERVATIVE)
Stephen Barclay (CONSERVATIVE)
John Baron (CONSERVATIVE)
Guto Bebb (CONSERVATIVE)
Richard Benyon (CONSERVATIVE)
Jake Berry (CONSERVATIVE)
Bob Blackman (CONSERVATIVE)
Nick Boles (CONSERVATIVE)
Peter Bone (CONSERVATIVE)
Andrew C Bowie (CONSERVATIVE)
Ben Bradley (CONSERVATIVE)
Karen Bradley (CONSERVATIVE)
Graham Brady (CONSERVATIVE)
Jack Brereton (CONSERVATIVE)
Andrew Bridgen (CONSERVATIVE)
Steve Brine (CONSERVATIVE)
Fiona Bruce (CONSERVATIVE)
Robert Buckland (CONSERVATIVE)
Alex Burghart (CONSERVATIVE)
Conor Burns (CONSERVATIVE)
Alistair Burt (CONSERVATIVE)
Alun Cairns (CONSERVATIVE)
James Cartlidge (CONSERVATIVE)
Maria Caulfield (CONSERVATIVE)
Alex Chalk (CONSERVATIVE)
Rehman Chishti (CONSERVATIVE)
Christopher Chope (CONSERVATIVE)
Jo Churchill (CONSERVATIVE)
Colin Clark (CONSERVATIVE)
Greg Clark (CONSERVATIVE)
Simon Clarke (CONSERVATIVE)
Geoffrey Clifton-Brown (CONSERVATIVE)
Alberto Costa (CONSERVATIVE)
Robert Courts (CONSERVATIVE)
Geoffrey Cox (CONSERVATIVE)
Stephen Crabb (CONSERVATIVE)
Tracey Crouch (CONSERVATIVE)
Chris Davies (CONSERVATIVE)
Glyn Davies (CONSERVATIVE)
Mims Davies (CONSERVATIVE)
Philip Davies (CONSERVATIVE)
Caroline Dinenage (CONSERVATIVE)
Jonathan Djanogly (CONSERVATIVE)
Leo Docherty (CONSERVATIVE)
Julia Dockerill (CONSERVATIVE)
Michelle Donelan (CONSERVATIVE)
Steve Double (CONSERVATIVE)
Oliver Dowden (CONSERVATIVE)
Jackie Doyle-Price (CONSERVATIVE)
Richard Drax (CONSERVATIVE)
James Duddridge (CONSERVATIVE)
David Duguid (CONSERVATIVE)
Philip Dunne (CONSERVATIVE)
Michael Ellis (CONSERVATIVE)
Charlie Elphicke (CONSERVATIVE)
David Evennett (CONSERVATIVE)
Michael Fabricant (CONSERVATIVE)
Suella Fernandes (CONSERVATIVE)
Mark Field (CONSERVATIVE)
Vicky Ford (CONSERVATIVE)
Kevin Foster (CONSERVATIVE)
Mark Francois (CONSERVATIVE)
Lucy Frazer (CONSERVATIVE)
George Freeman (CONSERVATIVE)
Mike Freer (CONSERVATIVE)
Marcus Fysh (CONSERVATIVE)
Mark Garnier (CONSERVATIVE)
David Gauke (CONSERVATIVE)
Nusrat Ghani (CONSERVATIVE)
Nick Gibb (CONSERVATIVE)
Cheryl Gillan (CONSERVATIVE)
John Glen (CONSERVATIVE)
Robert Goodwill (CONSERVATIVE)
Luke Graham (CONSERVATIVE)
Richard Graham (CONSERVATIVE)
Bill Grant (CONSERVATIVE)
Helen Grant (CONSERVATIVE)
James Gray (CONSERVATIVE)
Chris Green (CONSERVATIVE)
Justine Greening (CONSERVATIVE)
Sam Gyimah (CONSERVATIVE)
Kirstene Hair (CONSERVATIVE)
Robert Halfon (CONSERVATIVE)
Luke Hall (CONSERVATIVE)
Greg Hands (CONSERVATIVE)
Mark Harper (CONSERVATIVE)
Richard Harrington (CONSERVATIVE)
Rebecca Harris (CONSERVATIVE)
Trudy Harrison (CONSERVATIVE)
Simon Hart (CONSERVATIVE)
John Hayes (CONSERVATIVE)
James Heappey (CONSERVATIVE)
Chris Heaton-Harris (CONSERVATIVE)
Peter Heaton-Jones (CONSERVATIVE)
Gordon Henderson (CONSERVATIVE)
Nick Herbert (CONSERVATIVE)
Damian Hinds (CONSERVATIVE)
Simon Hoare (CONSERVATIVE)
George Hollingbery (CONSERVATIVE)
Kevin Hollinrake (CONSERVATIVE)
Philip Hollobone (CONSERVATIVE)
Adam Holloway (CONSERVATIVE)
John Howell (CONSERVATIVE)
Nigel Huddleston (CONSERVATIVE)
Eddie Hughes (CONSERVATIVE)
Nick Hurd (CONSERVATIVE)
Alister Jack (CONSERVATIVE)
Margot James (CONSERVATIVE)
Ranil Jayawardena (CONSERVATIVE)
Mr Bernard Jenkin (CONSERVATIVE)
Andrea Jenkyns (CONSERVATIVE)
Robert Jenrick (CONSERVATIVE)
Gareth Johnson (CONSERVATIVE)
Joseph Johnson (CONSERVATIVE)
Andrew Jones (CONSERVATIVE)
David Jones (CONSERVATIVE)
Marcus Jones (CONSERVATIVE)
Daniel Kawczynski (CONSERVATIVE)
Gillian Keegan (CONSERVATIVE)
Seema Kennedy (CONSERVATIVE)
Stephen Kerr (CONSERVATIVE)
Julian Knight (CONSERVATIVE)
Kwasi Kwarteng (CONSERVATIVE)
John Lamont (CONSERVATIVE)
Mark Lancaster (CONSERVATIVE)
Pauline Latham (CONSERVATIVE)
Jeremy Lefroy (CONSERVATIVE)
Andrew Lewer (CONSERVATIVE)
Brandon Lewis (CONSERVATIVE)
Ian Liddell-Grainger (CONSERVATIVE)
David Lidington (CONSERVATIVE)
Jack Lopresti (CONSERVATIVE)
Jonathan Lord (CONSERVATIVE)
Tim Loughton (CONSERVATIVE)
Craig Mackinlay (CONSERVATIVE)
Rachel Maclean (CONSERVATIVE)
Anne Main (CONSERVATIVE)
Alan Mak (CONSERVATIVE)
Scott Mann (CONSERVATIVE)
Paul Masterton (CONSERVATIVE)
Paul Maynard (CONSERVATIVE)
Stephen McPartland (CONSERVATIVE)
Esther McVey (CONSERVATIVE)
Mark Menzies (CONSERVATIVE)
Huw Merriman (CONSERVATIVE)
Maria Miller (CONSERVATIVE)
Amanda Milling (CONSERVATIVE)
Nigel Mills (CONSERVATIVE)
Anne Milton (CONSERVATIVE)
Andrew Mitchell (CONSERVATIVE)
Damien Moore (CONSERVATIVE)
Penny Mordaunt (CONSERVATIVE)
Anne Marie Morris (CONSERVATIVE)
David Morris (CONSERVATIVE)
James Morris (CONSERVATIVE)
Wendy Morton (CONSERVATIVE)
David Mundell (CONSERVATIVE)
Sheryll Murray (CONSERVATIVE)
Robert Neill (CONSERVATIVE)
Sarah Newton (CONSERVATIVE)
Caroline Nokes (CONSERVATIVE)
Jesse Norman (CONSERVATIVE)
Neil O'Brien (CONSERVATIVE)
Guy Opperman (CONSERVATIVE)
Neil Parish (CONSERVATIVE)
Mark Pawsey (CONSERVATIVE)
Mike Penning (CONSERVATIVE)
John Penrose (CONSERVATIVE)
Andrew Percy (CONSERVATIVE)
Claire Perry (CONSERVATIVE)
Chris Philp (CONSERVATIVE)
Christopher Pincher (CONSERVATIVE)
Rebecca Pow (CONSERVATIVE)
Victoria Prentis (CONSERVATIVE)
Mark Prisk (CONSERVATIVE)
Mark Pritchard (CONSERVATIVE)
Tom Pursglove (CONSERVATIVE)
Jeremy Quin (CONSERVATIVE)
Will Quince (CONSERVATIVE)
Laurence Robertson (CONSERVATIVE)
Mary Robinson (CONSERVATIVE)
Andrew Rosindell (CONSERVATIVE)
Douglas Ross (CONSERVATIVE)
Lee Rowley (CONSERVATIVE)
Amber Rudd (CONSERVATIVE)
David Rutley (CONSERVATIVE)
Antoinette Sandbach (CONSERVATIVE)
Paul Scully (CONSERVATIVE)
Bob Seely (CONSERVATIVE)
Andrew Selous (CONSERVATIVE)
Alok Sharma (CONSERVATIVE)
Alec Shelbrooke (CONSERVATIVE)
Keith Simpson (CONSERVATIVE)
Chris Skidmore (CONSERVATIVE)
Chloe Smith (CONSERVATIVE)
Henry Smith (CONSERVATIVE)
Julian Smith (CONSERVATIVE)
Royston Smith (CONSERVATIVE)
Mark Spencer (CONSERVATIVE)
Andrew Stephenson (CONSERVATIVE)
John Stevenson (CONSERVATIVE)
Bob Stewart (CONSERVATIVE)
Iain Stewart (CONSERVATIVE)
Rory Stewart (CONSERVATIVE)
Gary Streeter (CONSERVATIVE)
Mel Stride (CONSERVATIVE)
Graham Stuart (CONSERVATIVE)
Julian Sturdy (CONSERVATIVE)
Robert Syms (CONSERVATIVE)
Derek Thomas (CONSERVATIVE)
Ross Thomson (CONSERVATIVE)
Maggie Throup (CONSERVATIVE)
Kelly Tolhurst (CONSERVATIVE)
Craig Tracey (CONSERVATIVE)
David Tredinnick (CONSERVATIVE)
Anne-Marie Trevelyan (CONSERVATIVE)
Tom Tugendhat (CONSERVATIVE)
Edward Vaizey (CONSERVATIVE)
Shailesh Vara (CONSERVATIVE)
Charles Walker (CONSERVATIVE)
Robin Walker (CONSERVATIVE)
Ben Wallace (CONSERVATIVE)
David Warburton (CONSERVATIVE)
Matt Warman (CONSERVATIVE)
Giles Watling (CONSERVATIVE)
Helen Whately (CONSERVATIVE)
Craig Whittaker (CONSERVATIVE)
Bill Wiggin (CONSERVATIVE)
Gavin Williamson (CONSERVATIVE)
Mike Wood (CONSERVATIVE)
William Wragg (CONSERVATIVE)
Jeremy Wright (CONSERVATIVE)
Gregory Campbell (DUP)
Nigel Dodds (DUP)
Sir Jeffrey M. Donaldson (DUP)
Paul Girvan (DUP)
Ian Paisley (DUP)
Emma Little Pengelly (DUP)
Gavin Robinson (DUP)
Jim Shannon (DUP)
David Simpson (DUP)
Sammy Wilson (DUP)

@leafygarden

Yes, I agree with you, Germany does seem to be doing better so far, but their health care model is not the same as the NHS. Of course mandatory private health care is (and should be!!) better than a government scheme. If everyone in the UK put 7.5% of their earnings specifically into their healthcare, it would obviously be better funded and therefore there would be more funds available to have more equipment and beds. But if that became mandatory in the UK, then lots of ladies, (right here on MN) would be moaning that it wasn't fair. Someone has already complained that the Conservatives were trying to push for privatisation... No government will ever win!

Also, I am fairly sure that the German's don't misuse the health service quite the same as the Brits seem to!

it wasn't JUST nurses it was public sector pay rises as a whole and was during nationwide austerity measures

The condem coalition and then Conservative govt said austerity was necessary to reduce the national debt. Ten years on the national debt has got bigger. Not all economists at the time said austerity so soon after the crash was appropriate. They would have been better spending when interests was low boosting economic growth much more than austerity did.

I think the huge public funding cuts including freezing public sector pay was devastating and the salt in the wound is austerity failed.

This is what the Tories do and people still vote for them.

Oh FFS the NHS isn't underfunded, it wastes money like no ones business, it is run by idiots who have no idea how to manage budgets or negotiate contracts

The average increases in the NHS budget between 2010 and 2018 were the lowest they had been since the inception of the NHS. Budgets rose by 1.4 per cent each year on average (adjusting for inflation) in the 10 years between 2009/10 to 2018/19, compared to the 3.7 per cent average rises since the NHS was established. Even under Thatcher the increase in funding was higher than between 2010 and 2018.

German healthcare is not a state run system like the NHS but only 15 per cent of it is comprised of private profit based insurance companies. 85 percent of Germans are insured through the public, statutory insurance program. There are about 100 insurers who are non-profit, non-governmental organizations that operate autonomously. The government does play a key role in setting standards. For example, all sickness funds are required by law to offer the same comprehensive benefits package, which covers virtually all health care needs. But it is a non-governmental body, the Federal Joint Commission, which decides what benefits are covered.

People earning over around 62,550 Euros gross salary can opt out of the non profit insurance system, plus some other groups like self employed, and pay for private profit based insurance companies. Germany spends something like 11.1% of its GDP on healthcare, whilst the UK is I think around 9.8% if you include both NHS and private care.

Most Germans' health insurance contributions are deducted from their paychecks by their employers. The amount, however, is capped at 14.6 percent of a person’s salary, split fifty-fifty between the employer and the employee, so 7.3 percent each way. But coverage is not dependent on the employer, so when Germans change or lose their jobs, nothing changes in their health insurance. The system provides universal healthcare with only 0.1% of the population without healthcare.

Typo above, should be ‘pay for private profit based insurance healthcare’ not ‘pay for private profit based insurance companies’.

Let's not forget the axing of bursaries either.

If everyone in the UK put 7.5% of their earnings specifically into their healthcare, it would obviously be better funded and therefore there would be more funds available to have more equipment and beds. But if that became mandatory in the UK, then lots of ladies, (right here on MN) would be moaning that it wasn't fair.

The UK population accept part of their pay packet goes toward funding the NHS. NI contributions are mandatory in the UK as of course is tax both of which contribute to funding the NHS.

May I remind you that the vote was against a Labour amendment to the Queen's speech, about 3 years ago.

Finally, what difference does it make that it was a Labour amendment to try and lift the public pay freeze gap? It just highlights the govt didn’t want to stop the freeze on public sector pay.

We would have had to lockdown anyway. Your post is fake news.

Logic fail. OP hasn't anywhere suggested that this is the cause of lockdown, @zsazsajuju. It's highly revealing when the tactic of the government's supporters is to attack people for what they haven't said rather than attempt to defend on what they have.

The British public knew this before voting Tory at the last GE. We made a decision, it was not to support public services but to stick it to the EU which was considered more important

The country as a whole gets the government it deserves. Britain has spent the last three and half years gripped in a self inflicted crisis. It will spend the next three and half years gripped with the fallout of a inflicted crisis plus the fallout from a global pandemic.

The ten years or so 2016 -2026 will be a period in which Britain was far too busy with the Great British Brexit to bother with trifling issues such as a functioning NHS, education, housing, catastrophic global warming, (or responding effectively to damning pandemic preparedness simulation reports).

BurgerOnTheOrientExpress
Thank god you came along with your version of “sense”.
Still don’t agree with it - I think I’m still entitled to my own opinion on things I see on a daily basis? But yeah, what would I know . . .

They should put their money where their mouth is, instead if all this clapping bollocks.

Strange one this. @CeibaTree starts a thread with a list of names he/she/it presumably disagrees with. I post a list of respondees to that proposal who I agree with and who I disagree with, and pointing the ones I disagree with to a factual independent source that helps correct their 'opinion'.

@feebeecat, it's absolutely your prerogative to be entitled to your own opinion however, ultimately facts are sacred. I don't dispute what you
'see on a daily' , however I point you to the comments of those that I agreed with.

Oh, sorry you don't know who they are because my 'list' was removed.

BurgerOnTheOrientExpress
Facts are indeed “sacred”.
I tend to look at them objectively, comparing anything written, from either right/left perspective and compare to my own experience. If it is way off, with gaping holes in any argument, I will make my judgement accordingly. And so I did.

I think you may find that the original list gives details (facts?) about the voting preferences of MPs on public sector pay, it is not just a patronising list of people that YOU agree/disagree with. That is just an “opinion” and not a “sacred fact” 🙄

What a load of utter disingenuous bollocks. Shame, OP. At least do a bit of research before copying and pasting to get a bit of attention in a goady thread.

If you want to bash anyone, why not have a go at Corbyn and the people who kept an unelectable anti-Semite in power as leader of the opposition. There was no alternative at the last GE.

If you want to bash anyone, why not have a go at Corbyn and the people who kept an unelectable anti-Semite in power as leader of the opposition. There was no alternative at the last GE.

Your whataboutery "arguement" doesn't hold up well at all...

www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/13/lady-warsi-hits-out-at-tory-failure-to-tackle-islamophobia