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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think policing is pretty poor in this country?

427 replies

EasyPleasey · 13/04/2020 09:10

I'm sure there are lots of excellent and well meaning individual police officers. However, my dealings with them in the past decade have been:

  1. Reported a sexual assault. CCTV available, public area. Case closed not investigated.

  2. Reported a burglary. Very likely suspect told to them, they didnt investigate, they didnt have time, case closed.

  3. Spent ages writing to them about suspected fraud on a now deceased person. Never followed up by police.

  4. Reported a fraudulent car sale/theft complete with names and addresses, nothing done.

  5. Reported regular criminal damage to private property, some teenagers smashing outdoor lights and garden furniture in my road, £1000s of damage. Police said it's worse in other areas and did nothing.

But now I see police loitering round Tesco enforcing that one puts 'non essential' socks in their trolley, harassing people for using their front garden, I think where did they find all this time? Maybe a lot actually enjoy having the power to order people around, but solving crimes isnt a passion for many of them?

OP posts:
HeIenaDove · 14/04/2020 17:56

inews.co.uk/opinion/columnists/lockdown-needs-police-and-nosy-neighbours-stop-shaming-2537503

Lockdown will only work if the over-zealous police and nosy neighbours lay off
The biggest threat to willingness to abide by the rules is the minority indulging their inner busybodies

When the lockdown began, there was a lot of concern about whether people would comply with it. Young men, in particular, were reported to be too cavalier in their attitude to coronavirus, and rumours of people acting irresponsibly abounded.

It was a reasonable worry. If a reckless minority proved sufficiently numerous to undermine the strategy of social distancing, it would allow the virus to continue to spread.

These fears seem to have been misplaced. Not everyone has done the right thing all of the time, inevitably, but the data seems to suggest that levels of compliance with the lockdown started high and have stayed that way – so far

A number of factors have contributed. The obvious severity of the virus, and the dreadful death toll, is the most obvious reason. The clarity of the message – Stay Home, Protect the NHS, Save Lives – and the authority of the medical and scientific officers delivering it is another.

The Queen’s address to the nation came at just the right time to emphasise the importance of sticking to the rules. A staggering 24 million people watched her live on television, with goodness knows how many more viewing online or on catch-up.

Frankly, the Prime Minister’s misfortune in falling seriously ill with the virus probably brought an inadvertent benefit in terms of public information, too. Aside from the most barmy conspiracy theorists, his illness left no-one in any doubt about the danger of Covid-19.

While the lockdown has been observed widely and consistently, nobody believes that it will be sustainable forever. Even leaving aside the economic consequences, and the mental health impact, human beings are naturally restless. These conditions can be frustrating to abide by, and therefore the rules will inevitably start to fray at some point.

We don’t know how long that will take; we must hope that the lockdown lasts long enough to do its job. The question is what can be done to make that possible.

Some demand greater enforcement. More fines, stricter punishments, more aggressive policing. But while some sanctions are clearly necessary – for idiots holding house parties, or thugs spitting in people’s faces, for example – the truth is that it is impossible to sustain a widespread lockdown by force. There aren’t enough police officers to fine everybody feasibly, and – mercifully – this isn’t China

Instead, the fight against coronavirus rests largely on policing by consent, just like the fight against crime in normal times. The vast majority observe the rules not because they fear punishment, but because they choose to do so. They want to help to save lives and to get the country through this

The question is therefore how to preserve consent. After three weeks of life under lockdown, the biggest threat to popular willingness to abide by the rules is surely the minority who see this crisis as a licence to indulge their inner busybodies.

I don’t mean the people who rightly expect social distancing to be observed, and who reasonably ask that those around them follow the rules. Rather, I’m thinking of those who insist on inventing new and excessive restrictions all of their own, and who appear to be itching to set themselves up in judgment over others.

Depressingly, this pound store Stasi exist in officialdom as well as in the civilian population. There are numerous examples of their petty and pompous work. Think of the nosy neighbour who spied on Housing Secretary Robert Jenrick’s parents and shamed them in the national press for the sin of receiving food and medicine from their own son. By punishing something which is allowed, that person makes it harder for people to give and receive the support required for vital self-isolation.

Last week, the Chief Constable of Northamptonshire Police threatened that officers might start “checking baskets and trolleys” to ensure every item in people’s shopping was “necessary”. He seemed to have failed to understand the guidance or the law; shopping trips must be justified by a need for essential items, but everyone is free to also buy non-essential items while they are on such a trip

In South Yorkshire, a police officer was filmed telling a family they were not allowed to sit or play outside in their own garden, again without any basis in reason or law.

And Sam Halms, an NHS nurse in East Anglia, received a note denouncing her for driving to work. It read: “I have been watching you travel every day in your car. You are not in uniform, so this is clearly unessential travel. You are part of the problem… You have been reported

These busybodies, not their victims, are “part of the problem”. Every malicious snooper, every nasty note, every individual taking it upon themself to enforce made-up rules, strikes a blow against the precious consent that will keep the lockdown working!

GlummyMcGlummerson · 14/04/2020 18:36

Great article Helena

The government have announced that lockdown measure will be relaxed for people who need to be outdoors for health reasons - including people with disabilities and people with autism. Great news - but how will these already vulnerable people be impacted by over zealous police and what advice are police being given to manage this?

canigooutyet · 14/04/2020 18:56

That is excellent news about the relax.
But it will bring more issues.

People will demand to know that child is out.
Demand to know their age
Demand to know why that 15 year is out

And a common theme is tough shit to medical privacy. If we demand you show us evidence of that bs hidden disability.

Oh this will trigger that vulnerable person, as we know can lead to violence.

Tough shit.

I really wish I made these up. Comments over the past few days on this site.

MogeatDog · 14/04/2020 19:00

@HeIenaDove that facebook group sounds awful. I did wonder how the relaxed rules for people with autism and disabilities would be affected by the encouragement of vigilanties by the police.
I don't for a second believe this appalling behaviour is widespread but what's new about all this - the arrogance - before social media there was only hearsay about the way the few bad apples behave but now we have proof - but it concerns me that they feel protected enough to make a public record of their poor judgements.

ProfessorSlocombe · 14/04/2020 19:04

www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/disabled-woman-slams-intimidating-police-21859425

"Disabled woman slams 'intimidating' police after she was stopped from resting on park bench during lockdown"

"Lauren Davis, from Glasgow, was walking home from her local fruit and veg shop when she had to take a rest on a park bench on Saturday afternoon.

The 34-year-old, who has received government grants for her Ehlers-Danlos syndrome (EDS) diagnosis, felt that her wrist and shoulder joints were on the verge of dislocating as she carried a week-load of shopping along with her partner Sam.

As soon as the couple sat down on a bench in the city’s Queens Park, two police officers approached to point out the current laws as per the
government -imposed lockdown.

Her partner Sam Dransfield said that the couple have always believed they could rely on the police prior to the lockdown - but that the attitude of the officers on Saturday 'felt different'.

Sam said: "As soon as the police came over to us, I held my breath and
said 'oh, here we go."

"Lauren was so exhausted but you could tell that they didn't see her
struggling before we sat down.

"They were very rude and patronising but we also felt intimidated by the whole experience."

ProfessorSlocombe · 14/04/2020 19:08

People will notice however in the preceding story that the polices first action was to assume the lady in question was transgressing ... something. It wasn't to see if she needed assistance. Which does rather cast doubt on the "people join the police so they can help people" line of arguing ...

But then I have seen with my own eyes a policeman try to handcuff someone having an epileptic fit ...

HeIenaDove · 14/04/2020 19:27

YY Mog Its no real loss being kicked out of that group.

HeIenaDove · 14/04/2020 23:11

Wow What a prick.

singingbird135 · 15/04/2020 08:46

If you think our police service is bad you should look at other countries. You'd be shocked. We are sheltered on this island.

singingbird135 · 15/04/2020 08:49

Blame the government not the police. They put their lives on the line for very little return. A lot of work and high stress goes into each case and the courts just release them.
Supper ace respect the police. They do their best with crap resources and little support.

singingbird135 · 15/04/2020 09:24

Whoops dunno where supper ace came from hahaha!

BubblesBuddy · 15/04/2020 09:51

If the courts cannot prosecute it’s due to lack of high quality evidence. It’s down to the police to gather that. If they cannot, courts cannot convict on police “feelings” about guilt. They need to prove it!

The police officers I have had the misfortune to meet don’t seem well educated. I don’t think they attract the brightest grads. They seem to have a lot of officers who don’t appear to understand the needs of the public and always complain about their work load. They do get £££££ from overtime and retire at 50 on full pension. Some work hard but others are really not that great at serving the public.

I was assaulted in London and the Met told me to speak to my local police when I got home. No police stations were open where this occurred, so the help line advised. When I went to my local police station a WPC complained about me turning up. Moaned about the Met not dealing with me and wasn’t remotely interested. I supplied them with evidence about who had assaulted me and they shrugged their shoulders. I stood my ground and explained to this, frankly, thick and uncaring women, that this man might assault a younger woman and would anyone who was a mum or dad really think he should get away with it? Eventually I got a phone call and they said they traced him via his car registration (which I had noted) and said they spoke to him! So help and understanding on two occasions when this was reported were absent from what I could see. Just annoyance that I had bothered them. I had to push very hard to get any action.

I think this virus has brought out the worst in them too. My local national trust car park was closed by them parking in the entrance. It’s large and serves hundreds of acres of land. Cars, instead, parked in passing places, field gates and in the lanes. Unintended consequences but these people could have safely used the car park. It feels over zealous. Meanwhile the boy racers are having a field day! I think they take the easy route in life. Sit in a car park or deal with abusive men? Hmmmm. I think the car park duty looks the better option.

ProfessorSlocombe · 15/04/2020 11:29

Anyone seen the thread in Relationships about a poor mother that was arrested and held because her dementia-ridden father accused her of stealing food ?

RuffleCrow · 15/04/2020 12:26

It's not a race to the bottom @singingbird135 Hmm

RuffleCrow · 15/04/2020 12:29

And yes, i saw it. The level of incompetance is staggering. I reported someone for threatening behaviour yesterday amongst other things. There was recorded evidence. I'm not aware the police even spoke to the person in question. Shock

NevilleGoddard · 15/04/2020 14:25

<a class="break-all" href="https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=www.college.police.uk/What-we-do/COVID-19/Documents/What-constitutes-a-reasonable-excuse.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiw6b-LveroAhWVO8AKHZD4B00QFjAAegQIBRAC&usg=AOvVaw2TGvBnKDHW7_Xf1DzKgYnT" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=www.college.police.uk/What-we-do/COVID-19/Documents/What-constitutes-a-reasonable-excuse.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiw6b-LveroAhWVO8AKHZD4B00QFjAAegQIBRAC&usg=AOvVaw2TGvBnKDHW7_Xf1DzKgYnT

Official Police guidance on what constitutes a reasonable excuse to be away from place of residence.

Disappointing lots of MNetters (and some Police lol)

BubblesBuddy · 15/04/2020 15:06

Actually I think that allows quite a lot. The maintenance and upkeep is a very fine judgement to make when redecorating a kitchen! That’s a bit stupid and almost impossible to police.

As people are allowed to drive a bit for exercise, why were the police not allowing parking? Is there a law against parking? Don’t think so - the Police are over zealous and they really need to back off.

I don’t think my local police risk their lives every day. I would take their pay and sit in a car park wagging my finger at the odd car!

singingbird135 · 15/04/2020 18:55

Who is racing?

singingbird135 · 15/04/2020 19:17

Also I wouldn't assume that everyone released is found not guilty.... depending on the crime of course!
Also out of interest how many crimes have people here reported in a lifetime? I have reported 1. I've had one other dealing with Police when I was in a bad car accident that went to trial. I was a passenger and must admit was treated like I caused it! But one bad experience does not make me dislike the police. They are so stretched and resources are dreadful. I still believe we have a very good service in comparison to most other countries.

NevilleGoddard · 15/04/2020 19:23

They won't be releasing any high-risk offenders, whether or remand or not.

NevilleGoddard · 15/04/2020 19:25

Whether ON remand or not

Warsawa31 · 15/04/2020 19:36

Everyone says the police are under resourced but they have their priorities upside down. They seem to have morphed into a sycophantic mop for enlightened woke thinking. Plenty of time to investigate hurt feelings on Twitter and Harass people in their front gardens or drawing chalk on a pavement.

It’s not the police individually it’s the culture from the top - woke and enlightened. They aren’t what they used to be, thank God for trial by jury is all I ca say

plominoagain · 15/04/2020 20:02

Bubbles , no one retires at 50 any more on a full pension . That got changed in 2006 . And again in 2015 . I’m due to retire after 30 years in about 18 months , and my full pension has been decimated . My colleagues who follow me will be working until at least 60 .

As for taking the easy route , well my poorly educated self is currently sleeping in my car so as not to put my family at risk ,in between shifts where I apparently do bugger all except piss people off on a power trip , just because I can . Feel free to have my easy job , if you think you can.

NevilleGoddard · 15/04/2020 21:23

@plominoagain You don't need to sleep in your car FFS. Follow basic advice. Wash your hands often; especially after touching someone/something. Don't touch your face or put your fingers in your mouth.

Change your clothes before going home (usual for most Police anyway) and shower if poss before going home. If not, shower as soon as you get home

That's it.