disgusted that nurses/carers/doctors are dying for lack of PPE in 6th richest country

[wemustnotforget]

When this is all over (or maybe now) we must hold Boris and team responsible for risking so many lives.

Our health secretary said this -
“We need everyone to treat PPE like the precious resource it is,” he said on Friday. “Everyone should use the equipment they clinically need, in line with the guidelines: no more and no less.”

Nurses, porters, doctors are sacrificing their own safety and Matt Hockock has nerves to say they must not OVERUSE PPE, they dont have PPEs. Why was he chosen for this job when his background is in economics?

From wikipedia -
He studied at Exeter College, Oxford, and graduated with a first in Philosophy, Politics and Economics, and went on to Christ's College, Cambridge, to earn an MPhil degree in Economics.[5][6] Hancock became a member of the Conservative Party in 1999.[7]
After university, Hancock briefly worked for his family's computer software company, before moving to London to work as an economist at the Bank of England, specialising in the housing market.

A doctor who warned Boris a month ago about risks of medical staff working without PPEs has died of corona virus at the age of 53.

In his message to the prime minister, Dr Chowdhury wrote: "Please ensure urgently PPE for each and every NHS health worker in the UK.

"Remember we may be doctors/nurses/HCAs/allied health workers who are in direct contact with patients, but we are also human beings to practice human rights like others, to live in this world disease free with our family and children.

"Otherwise in future our children will lose interest to go to medical school.
news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-doctor-who-warned-prime-minister-about-ppe-dies-with-covid-19-11971068

And for those who are going to say I am making it political at the time of crisis, no I am not. I want this government to be accountable for their actions.

Why UK declined EU's offer of collective PPE purchase.

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/26/no-10-boris-johnson-accused-of-putting-brexit-over-breathing-in-covid-19-ventilator-row

On Any Answers (R4) a nurse called in from a London hospital and said hers was well planned, well stocked, no issues-because her managers are good planners.
Anita Ireland, the presenter, was clearly put out as it was not what the BBC wants to publicise -ie some hospitals are well run, others not do much.

I think we need to be honest about it. Our school tech department was making masks on their 3d printer. Clothing factories have offered their services but the Gov didn't get back to them - people on our local facebook group are sewing gowns but it needs to be co-ordinated and until we talk about it openly it won't be. There is no point in berating the Tories - looking back is not going to solve the future supply issues.

@PineappleDanish speaks 100% sense

Can you tell my kids that?

What else should the government spent millions on stockpiling just in case? Bearing in mind that there are expiry dates on most items? Everyone's doing their best to ramp up production and now that things are easing in China the supply might increase again. But it's not just the UK who are struggling to get enough PPE, it's every country in the world.

@balhammon - exactly.

It's all very well saying they should have done more but nobody could have prepared for this. Everyone country in the world needs PPE and unfortunately it doesn't last forever.

You can't always just use the stockpiles from ten years ago. It needs to remade and when billions of people require it at once, that's not always possible.

It's also not helped by people thinking they need PPE when they don't. There's a post on my local FB group asking for PPE for people working in Farmfoods.

It's needed for hospital staff, care workers, GPs, funeral workers, perhaps nursery staff dealing with potentially ill children. But not anyone who is still working. And let's not get started on all the people panic buying plastic disposable gloves to "decontaminate" their shopping.

The government knew that a pandemic like this was a possibility and they had a choice to stockpile and replace and to bear the cost of that or to rely on supply chains in the event

They also know that an asteroid hitting earth is a possibility. Should we spend the next 10 years developing PPE that might help with the fallout from that, burns victims, floods?

Paramedics turned up to attend to my friend's mother with no masks - she has Covid 19!
The carers who looks after my parents and visit up to 20 different homes a day were given 3 masks and told not to wear them unless they suspected covid.
My sil works in another hospital on the frontline - he got some mask last week - only because they suspected a covid case on her ward. These 3 cases are all in different areas I don't believe it's isolated healthcare professional are playing russian roulette everyday and ther is not enough honesty about this.

And let's not get started on all the people panic buying plastic disposable gloves to "decontaminate" their shopping

Farmers need disposable gloves particularly at this time of year (lambing).

I found some latex gloves, that I'd had in my cupboard and forgotten about. I used them to push the trolley with, then washed them. Just like you would wash your hands thoroughly. I dont get why they cant be washed and refused.

There's a post on my local FB group asking for PPE for people working in Farmfoods. It wasn't needed for London bus drivers either but nine of them have sadly died. I don't think we have made the best judgement on who needs protection.

They aren’t dying because of lack of PPE. They are dying because despite PPE it is extremely contagious and they are still catching it and some of them are dying.

Heyall none of the staff in the UK who have sadly died worked in ITU, where full protective kit is worn.

Protective kit does work. But it needs to be available to all staff in contact with patients.

Let’s forget this idea of “non Covid” patients in hospital. Dh has had 8 patients over the last 10 days who tested negative, and so were sent to the “non Covid” ward and then a couple of days later tested positive. The level of PPE allowed on that ward is at an inferior level (paper mask plastic pinny) the staff have been looking after Covid positive patients - they just didn’t know it.

The staff probably gave it to them!

So why have PHE downgraded the type of PPE we need recommend by the WHO and the UK resus council? Also I am sure you are all aware that the FRM are only around 80% effective even when worn correctly.

Some honesty and integrity from the Tory party would be a refreshing change but no let's tell HCP not to overuse PPE or that their colleagues may not have contracted covid at work - what a crass thing to say those HCP have families and children.

Granted supply and demand is the issue here it's not possible for the government to keep up with it. However they should have been better prepared initially and if the Tories had not year on year underfunded the NHS then, maybe there would be less decision making needed regarding ITU care. So yes of course it is political. I am fortunate to work in a trust with great management and I have had no problems with PPE. I just feel that the decision to downgrade type of PPE was underhand and financially motivated. This highly contagious virus is killing HCP so let's give them a fighting chance and allow them/us to wear full PPE on the covid wards not just for AGP.

Out of interest what would the non HCP on this thread do if they were required to care for covid patients without PPE? Would you do it?

Re reusing latex gloves it's not recommended, it gives a false sense of security and people tend to wash their hands less frequently, the more you wash them the less protective they are and it's difficult to take them off
without contaminating yourself. I've heard that some gp practices try this on to cut costs but infection control would really frown upon it

However they should have been better prepared initially

HOW

I am fortunate to work in a trust with great management and I have had no problems with PPE

So how is it a political problem??

Rupertpenrysmistress absolutely agree with you. So many people jumping in to defend boris and the government when they've not got a clue.

So many people jumping in to defend boris and the government when they've not got a clue

So many people blaming Boris and the government when they don't have a clue.

We have known about this virus since the end of December. Given how the NHS is already on its knees due to underfunding you would have through someone might have had the foresight to make sure we had enough PPE for an epidemic. It would be interesting to compare the level of PPE in Germany with here. Their death rate is remarkably low.

@Tonyaster - I don't think they've done any real work on the asteroid thing though?

However the government had modelled what could happen in a pandemic scenario. They ran an exercise in 2016 called Exercise Cygnus to explore this every situation. They knew how it would impact the NHS.

Tonyaster are you working from tory hq ? Any post questioning government policy you're on it.

At least change your username

Thank God for Pinneaple sense. So tired or reading posts from people who don't have a clue about what their talking about but expected to be taken as expert, when their only agenda is to use any excuses to bash a government and politicians they don't like.

@Tonyaster they could have been better prepared initially by at least having you know a plan for a pandemic, rather than it a bloody clue. Listened to WHO test test test trace and isolate but oh no let's take no action.

Again how many of you saying 'the staff probably gave it to them ' are HCP. It's seems that HCP according to this thread spread the virus but, don't die from it! Expect PPE! to protect from a highly contagious virus and then get told don't waste it, don't overuse it, what do you expect the government to do?

Yes it is political that is nothing to do with my trust having enough PPE. Albeit some that had expired 2016 with an indate sticker placed over the top.