disgusted that nurses/carers/doctors are dying for lack of PPE in 6th richest country

[wemustnotforget]

When this is all over (or maybe now) we must hold Boris and team responsible for risking so many lives.

Our health secretary said this -
“We need everyone to treat PPE like the precious resource it is,” he said on Friday. “Everyone should use the equipment they clinically need, in line with the guidelines: no more and no less.”

Nurses, porters, doctors are sacrificing their own safety and Matt Hockock has nerves to say they must not OVERUSE PPE, they dont have PPEs. Why was he chosen for this job when his background is in economics?

From wikipedia -
He studied at Exeter College, Oxford, and graduated with a first in Philosophy, Politics and Economics, and went on to Christ's College, Cambridge, to earn an MPhil degree in Economics.[5][6] Hancock became a member of the Conservative Party in 1999.[7]
After university, Hancock briefly worked for his family's computer software company, before moving to London to work as an economist at the Bank of England, specialising in the housing market.

A doctor who warned Boris a month ago about risks of medical staff working without PPEs has died of corona virus at the age of 53.

In his message to the prime minister, Dr Chowdhury wrote: "Please ensure urgently PPE for each and every NHS health worker in the UK.

"Remember we may be doctors/nurses/HCAs/allied health workers who are in direct contact with patients, but we are also human beings to practice human rights like others, to live in this world disease free with our family and children.

"Otherwise in future our children will lose interest to go to medical school.
news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-doctor-who-warned-prime-minister-about-ppe-dies-with-covid-19-11971068

And for those who are going to say I am making it political at the time of crisis, no I am not. I want this government to be accountable for their actions.

Why UK declined EU's offer of collective PPE purchase.

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/26/no-10-boris-johnson-accused-of-putting-brexit-over-breathing-in-covid-19-ventilator-row

I agree that had the gov spent millions on this, stockpiling just in case, there would have been media coverage of warehouses full of 'wasted' funds, had this not happened. SARS didn't spread to Europe, nor did various others. Its very easy to be wise after the event.

Fabric gowns can be washed but this takes time and there are only so many, obviously plastic gowns are meant to be disposable, as are gloves (latex) and hats (paper). Visors are plastic and disinfected. Ppe is not worn all the time, taken off when we have breaks, can't hang them up to use again as they would contaminate scrubs underneath.

Totally agree with @PineappleDanish

These are unprecedented times, and it's not for a lack of money. It doesn't help that countries like the US, France, Germany etc are preventing exports of PPE. We cannot magic it out of thin air!

I think this whole situation just goes to show how important it is to be self-sufficient (as a country) for things like this. But who knows what the next national emergency will be that we need to plan for, and what we need to be self-sufficient in. You can only predict so much.

YeOldeTrout

This figure of 41 includes social care staff.

Sone masks are reusable just need washing and filter changing, but not all people can use them when fit tested, rest are fabric things which are heavily contaminated.

@BlackForestCake
WRONG WRONG and WRONG

We know full well why there isn't enough PPE. It's because people voted for the fucking Tories

This is laughable.

There isn't enough Ppe because China makes most of it and stopped exporting it in January,at the same time the WHO said there was no human to human transmission.

I make PPE. Labour govts have always been bad for our business because they order very little!

@Iloveknockknockjokes
We have taken delivery of ppe from China

You also can't store PPE for very long. Certification needs to be done annually and the certification changes every year.

If we had warehouses full of PPE from 2016 it wouldn't be certified.

Well we’re the 6th richest country and killed 130,000 people over the past 10 years due to austerity measures. So I can believe that our government is responsible for something like this.

Before HCPs started dying at this rate, I gave Bojo and his clowns the benefit of doubt, saying anyone in power would’ve faced the same problems. But they’ve stripped the NHS bare to the bones in the last 10 years. It’s hard not to politicise this event. The very immigrants they shunned are the ones sacrificing their lives to save people.

Well we’re the 6th richest country and killed 130,000 people over the past 10 years due to austerity measures

I don't think that (widely shared I'll grant you) statistic is at all true.

And if it is, then what will come after this economically will make austerity look like halcyon days.

@BlackForestCake

Do clowns like this really exist?

The current situation is unprecedented. No country has enough of every type of PPE. No country has perfect supply chains to get PPE to every last location in the perfect timeframe.

From what I’ve heard, the majority of clinicians do now have the PPE they need. That is testament to the hard work of a lot of people on the ground.

While the deaths of healthcare workers are awful, we do not know that they are attributable to a lack of PPE or even to their work at all. To say otherwise, without evidence, is moronic. Indeed, one of the nurses who sadly passed away hadn’t been working with patients in a clinical role for months. Others may have contracted the virus from patients but hard to know if PPE was a factor.

@vanillandhoney they could have stockpiled it and replaced it - it was a choice. The government knew that a pandemic like this was a possibility and they had a choice to stockpile and replace and to bear the cost of that or to rely on supply chains in the event.This decision was made when Jeremy Hunt was Health Secretary in 2016. The decision was to rely on supply chains - the cheaper option.

Who could have predicted that supply chains would be overwhelmed during a pandemic? Who could have worked out that a pandemic means that every country in the world is going to need the same medical resources? Probably even my cocker spaniel could have worked that out.

It was a calculated risk - one that health workers are now paying for with their lives.

But the situation in the NHS currently when demand has skyrocketed in 8 weeks couldn't have been predicted.

It's like all of a sudden each child under the age of 18 in the UK being told they must have a bright orange anorak with 6 blue zips and a black hood. These anoraks can only be bought from pre-approved suppliers. There are a few of these in circulation already, but no parents have them in reserve because nobody thought they'd ever need one. So there's a mad scramble to buy up all the anoraks which conform and very quickly, they run out. Some manufacturers switch from making swimming costumes or school cardigans to orange anoraks but they can't keep up.

It's very, very basic supply and demand. But a lot of people don't understand that concept.

My friend is a nurse in the US. She has been told to wear her paper mask for as many days as possible if it is not soiled!!
I sent her a video about making masks from vaccuum cleaner bags, recommended by a surgeon. The mask certainly looked a lot better than the flimsy paper masks.
Another friend who is an ECG technician said they have had their masks and gloves stolen from their department.

Lots of healthcare trusts are reporting that they have plenty. I honestly think this is just an easy thing for the media to report, it's easy to understand and people who are trying to politicise this epidemic won't let it go even if proved wrong.

@Thedogscollar
Nice attitude. In fact "unless you can prove it wasnt down tothe PPe" keep ypur opinions to your self works exactly for you also. WE DO NOT KNOW
The journalists have been working very hard to trip up Matt Hancock over the use of PPE , I listened to Mishal Hussein relentlessly trying to get him to say it and he worked very hard not to make a remark that they would leap on, then as soon as the news came on they headlined "some people have over used ppe" even if later it was qualified with what he actually said. Soundbites and headlines. Whip up people into a frenzy of indignation. Here is another idea Lets work like the blazes to try and solve the problem. If anyone on here has a working solution, lets here it. I for one am sick of the blame game. Itt is not saving lives, and actaully neither is PPE, is is simplistic to think it is

@flippit but if they had stockpiled and no pandemic happened and news reports came over of the government throwing billions of pounds of PPE into landfill, then that would lead them to face similar criticism.

I'm not saying the government did the right thing but this is pretty much an unprecedented crisis that nobody could have predicted.

hear it , actually, typos

It's very, very basic supply and demand. But a lot of people don't understand that concept its mindboggling how people don't understand this.

Absolutely. There is very clear evidence that the right quality PPE used correctly reduces risks to health and social care staff.

The government chose to amend the guidance rather than supply sufficient.

I also think getting people sewing scrubs and printing visors means they feel included in the ‘fight’ and so will be less likely to criticise the government because they have become part of the team. Blitz spirit propaganda had much to answer for during WW2 and Mr Johnson clearly identifies strongly with Churchill.

Hancock’s words were entirely disrespectful of healthcare staff. The RCN are right, in my opinion, to hold the government to account and tell nursing staff not to work without PPE. Luckily, most health care staff would lay down in front of a bus before seeing their patients harmed. The government knows this so can be dismissive of RCN.

The NHS has stockpiled PPE for years and still does. This is where most of the current PPE is coming from.

However, many items have limited shelf life and the likelihood it would be required within the given timeframe has to be weighed against the cost of binning tens of millions of pounds of kit every year, or even hundreds of millions of pounds wastage if you want to stockpile the amounts we’re currently using.

Frankly, almost no realistic stockpile of PPE will be enough to cope with a pandemic of this scale.

I don't think that (widely shared I'll grant you) statistic is at all true.

@Tonyaster so is it worse than this? Or less?

Agree that whatever happens after this will be much worse than austerity.

@vanillandhoney - the pandemic is something that they have prepared for. But they chose to rely on supply chains rather than stockpile. They may have faced criticism for causing waste -but they would have a valid argument for doing so. I don't think concerns for the planet was the driving force for this decision.

@PineappleDanish speaks 100% sense. In the funeral industry we’re also desperate for PPE and have a team working round the clock trying to find it. But, it’s the same for the entire world. No one has enough. We managed to get some from China at huge expense, but when it arrived it was out of date and degraded. This goes beyond politics, it’s a national emergency and bitching & sniping won’t suddenly magic stuff into existence.