Keeping kids at their main home

[unoriginalusernamehere]

Apologies in advance if this subject has been over done, I can't find anything specific on here so I'll try and keep this concise.

I have 2 DSs, aged 9 and 7, their dad aka my exH lives 5 hours drive away in Scotland while we live in England.
I also have a DS aged 4 months with my DH.

There's no formal contact usual arrangement in place for DSs and their dad, it's generally been they see him alternate weekends. It's a bit of another issue that I've never believed they should travel that far on a Friday after school and come back Sunday lunchtime but for now, that's not the issue.

ExH has 2 step children aged 8 and 17 who live with him half the time. These children also live half the time at their own dads. Their own dad has step 4 similar aged step children. Who then also have step siblings.

I do not believe that at the moment my children should be travelling to their father. To me lock down is lock down for health reasons. He sees no issue and says as long as no one has any covid symptoms everything is fine (it's just like a holiday, he's bought a big swimming pool etc). He is also quoting the whole 'the government says it's fine for kids to go between houses'.

To add as a side note, my 4 month old and I spent Christmas in hospital with a virus and it was so, so scary.

I've had an (expensive) in-depth discussion with my solicitor who has advised that as there's no formal contact order in place, it's my discretion as the primary carer whether I believe it's in the boys best interests to travel etc. Solicitor advises if exH believes he should have contact he would have to apply for a court order and at the moment that could take months.

DSs don't want to go, they say they want to stay here until it's safer to travel. ExH says this is me manipulating them etc.

My concerns are the mix of children coming and going between all the households to me is just one big unnecessary melting pot of possible contamination.

I've offered exH unlimited FaceTime, calls etc but he rarely does. My sons have their own iPads with restrictions on which means they can take FaceTime calls and text their dad whenever they want.

So in a nutshell my question to you all is, while legally I believe I am ok to say to my exH that physical travel contact shouldn't take place until the lockdown is lifted or at least the peak is over?

Thanks in advance x

As a side note I should have added that my 9 year old has tried to tell his dad his doesn't want to go but his dad doesn't listen and I just end up with an upset son.

Hi OP, search my thread on a similar issue - I don’t know how to link it sorry. Some good advice on it - it’s in the Coronavirus section.
Good luck - It’s hard.

To be honest, it does sound like you are manipulating them if you are telling them it’s not safe and making your poor 9yo tell his dad that he doesn’t want to come. Assuming that no one is in the shielding group, I think it’s more important that the kids spend time with their parent than the small risk of mixing households (which is in line government guidance)

I can see why you have reservations. There are so many connections with other people.

mine go to their dad's as it is just him, close, they are autistic and I need a break to sleep, he hasn't been out so we are one unit in two houses, not connected to the outside world.

Where does it say she made her son say he didn’t want to come?

I’m in a similar boat and my DS said to me “why can’t dad just leave us alone?”

How is she manipulating them?

Lots of cross-mixing between households of blended family.
Not understanding the 2 week incubation/ contagious period before symptoms can show.
Extensive travel for 5 hours.
Child not having a desire to travel.

Several decent reasons to have concerns about continuing contact at present.

Good parent-child relationships will survive months of disruption and take up practical options avaliable.

@huntideas I haven't said to either son to tell their dad anything. At 9 my eldest is aware of what the coronavirus is and what is happening. Unfortunately we have a family member who is palliative in hospital with it so perhaps they realise the seriousness of it a little more than most.

I have also said to exH that when restrictions are lifted it's fine for the boys to spend more time there is they want, as in they can go for the whole of October half term (although 9 year old says he doesn't want to) the option is there. I'm hoping it will be restrictions lifted way before that but pessimists are never disappointed.

I won't undo the facetime restriction for the time being. You can monitor them anyway and take the pads away at night.

It would be nice for them to facetime when they want to.

Keeping the restriction in at the moment comes across as controlling.

Think the OP meant the iPads have age appropriate controls on them, she states she’s offered her ex unlimited FaceTime.
I think you’re being reasonable according to our current circumstances and the Family Court published advice, which allows for one parent being more concerned than the other.

Op, how would you feel if your ex said to you that you couldn't see your children for what is possibly going to be months?

There's already another thread on this. It's utterly pointless posting these things in my opinion. People can only do what they feel is right for their own children. Other people's views are utterly irrelevant, and it's a no win situation.

@MT2017 makes a good point.

And in my view life is weird and difficult enough for children just now without being stopped from seeing their parent.

Maybe they could go and stay for a longer period so travel is minimised?

All situations are unique and there's no right answer. I'm divorced and my DS is still going to his dad's house, but it's only a 30 minute drive away and my ex has no other children so no mixing of other households.

Based on the long drive alone I'd say YANBU.

I have said no to direct paternal contact for now. Exh lives a few miles away. He, his partner and my partner and I are all key workers. They have a baby. He didn't argue. There is a court order in place too.

Op I work in the family court. They are only doing already scheduled and urgent hearings just now. If it were me I would call his bluff and tell him to make the application if he chooses. Not worth the risk imo

"He is also quoting the whole 'the government says it's fine for kids to go between houses'."

So by "the whole" you mean he's quoting the actual government lockdown terms.

I think your position is morally repugnant.

OP you need to offer him more time with them than just half term but make the offer unspecific and dependent on how long lockdown goes on for.

For five hours? Do he isnt going to stop off anywhere on the way down or back up? He is going to drive 10 hours straight?

It's going between houses within reason FOR A REASON if he lived closer I wouldnt see too much of a problem as long as everyone isolates etc but five hours away is a bit much

If you want your children to remain in one household, then why do you get to pick which one? What if he said exactly the same thing to you? 'They should stay here. I don't want them travelling'. Would that be fine with you? I suspect you'd be screaming blue murder that he was keeping 'your' kids.

My apologies, I read they couldn't facetime.

I know it's be difficult for you, but is he able to have the kids for a longer period of time (ie. 2 weeks)? It would make the 5 hour drive more reasonable. He does have a right to see his children and the government has said that children can travel between both parents' houses. Your son may have picked up his worry from you (completely inadvertently, I'm sure, as many children are anxious about the current situation). As long as his father is devoted to his children and will care for them well, I don't see why they shouldn't stay with him for a while.

I understand your reasoning though, and it is a difficult situation.

Refusing to allow contact weekend to go ahead http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/amiibeingunreasonable/3859760-Refusing-to-allow-contact-weekend-to-go-ahead

Have a look at my advice on this thread.
Govt guidelines provide that an exception to remaining at home is DCs MAY travel between parents' homes. Not that they MUST.
Court guidance confirms this.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/full-guidance-on-staying-at-home-and-away-from-others/full-guidance-on-staying-at-home-and-away-from-others

www.judiciary.uk/announcements/covid-19-national-guidance-for-the-family-court-message-from-president-of-the-family-divison/

www.cafcass.gov.uk/grown-ups/parents-and-carers/covid-19-guidance-for-children-and-families/

Where there are cogent reasons why travel between homes is a risk to the DCs or anyone else, then you are perfectly entitled to say no and offer alternatives (as you have - eg daily FaceTime, extra holiday time when this is all over).

Some parents are agreeing to treat their households as 1 combined unit for quarantine purposes so that contact can continue as before. So eg DM house is A. DF house is B. DCs pass between A and B. An occupant of A shows symptoms. As A and B are one unit, all occupants of A and B go into 14 day isolation. DCs can continue to move between A and B and contact is uninterrupted.

You cannot do this. It is not practical because you don't just have A&B, you also have households D, E and F, possibly more with all the step families.

Reasons against allowing the DCs to travel here are perfectly sound -

1. Too many other households present an increased risk. There is limited social distancing because of it and a much higher risk to the DCs and other members of your household.
2. The travel - a 10 hour round trip is non essential travel. It will involve petrol stops, toilet stops etc and therefore unnecessary contact with third parties and public places. The guidance/rules have been drafted in a hurry. Adding the exception that DCs could travel was an afterthought. Arguably it assumes that parents live fairly close to each other and does not give consideration to the additional contact with several households where there are blended families. (Btw my ex lives 2 hours away and has my DCs this weekend, a 4 hour round trip does not require any stops and there are no extended step families involved so no additional risk).

Explain this to him in clear terms. Repeat the offer of FaceTime and extra holiday time later on. Emphasise that he is DF for life and whilst this is hard, his physical absence for the next few weeks is a necessary sacrifice which will not harm his relationship with them at all.

The DC's spent 10 hours in car every other weekend before lockdown? That's insane. I did one weekend a month - 1.5 hours each way as a child and absolutely hated that. Travelling that sort of distance during lockdown is absolutely ridiculous never mind the mixing of all those households - have you sat down with a piece of paper and worked out exactly how big a germ pool that is.

No they should not be seeing their Dad during lockdown given your individual set of circumstances. I would also be looking at visitation moving forwards after lockdown.

@TheTeenageYears or he could argue the same but get could stay with him?

They