Keeping kids at their main home

[unoriginalusernamehere]

Apologies in advance if this subject has been over done, I can't find anything specific on here so I'll try and keep this concise.

I have 2 DSs, aged 9 and 7, their dad aka my exH lives 5 hours drive away in Scotland while we live in England.
I also have a DS aged 4 months with my DH.

There's no formal contact usual arrangement in place for DSs and their dad, it's generally been they see him alternate weekends. It's a bit of another issue that I've never believed they should travel that far on a Friday after school and come back Sunday lunchtime but for now, that's not the issue.

ExH has 2 step children aged 8 and 17 who live with him half the time. These children also live half the time at their own dads. Their own dad has step 4 similar aged step children. Who then also have step siblings.

I do not believe that at the moment my children should be travelling to their father. To me lock down is lock down for health reasons. He sees no issue and says as long as no one has any covid symptoms everything is fine (it's just like a holiday, he's bought a big swimming pool etc). He is also quoting the whole 'the government says it's fine for kids to go between houses'.

To add as a side note, my 4 month old and I spent Christmas in hospital with a virus and it was so, so scary.

I've had an (expensive) in-depth discussion with my solicitor who has advised that as there's no formal contact order in place, it's my discretion as the primary carer whether I believe it's in the boys best interests to travel etc. Solicitor advises if exH believes he should have contact he would have to apply for a court order and at the moment that could take months.

DSs don't want to go, they say they want to stay here until it's safer to travel. ExH says this is me manipulating them etc.

My concerns are the mix of children coming and going between all the households to me is just one big unnecessary melting pot of possible contamination.

I've offered exH unlimited FaceTime, calls etc but he rarely does. My sons have their own iPads with restrictions on which means they can take FaceTime calls and text their dad whenever they want.

So in a nutshell my question to you all is, while legally I believe I am ok to say to my exH that physical travel contact shouldn't take place until the lockdown is lifted or at least the peak is over?

Thanks in advance x

The children don’t want to travel to their Dads though. So presumably they don’t want to be locked down there either?

I’m sure there are mums who are using this against fathers but there also seems to be a lot of mums desperately trying to do the right thing by their kids, other household members and wider society and being criticised constantly.

Mascott I think you are missing the point.
This is a question of whether the exception to the travel ban applies or not. The DCs are at their DM's.
In theory, yes, the same principles would apply if the DCs were at their DF's when lockdown started. But they aren't. The issue raised is about movement of DCs. It's not a mother vs father argument.

Nobody should be travelling for 5/10 hours and mixing with the very extended blended families OP describes.

The lockdown period is not going to ruin the DC-DF bond. It's a blip and a necessary evil for the good of the country.

I’m not missing the point, thanks.

The exception to the travel ban does apply.

The arrangements can be made accordingly.

People have also missed the point of the interlinked households via many other step children coming and going.

This is dangerous and is the mixing of households, what 3, 4 or 5 the op mentioned. I couldn't keep track.

So it would be a no from me because of the journey and because of the mixing of so many households and those children may still be attending school and childcare if any parents are keyworkers.

Not sure where people could read the op was being manipulative, talk about projecting.

Also the people who find it morally repugnant, fuck off, how is the op protecting her children from a total household soup at the time of an pandemic and avoiding a potentially dangerous 10 hour journey, morally repugnant?

Whoever said “morally repugnant” highlighted their own lack of intelligence, nothing more. Ignore it OP

How would he handle toilet breaks on the ridiculously long journey to his house, they risk catching things then.
Whose decision was it to live so far apart after splitting?
As a child I would hate that every other weekend. It's a long arse time to be sat in a car there and back. I used to travel a similar distance to see my grandparents but we used to stay the whole summer holidays so it was worth the car trip.
The lockdown isn't an ideal situation, so many people are not seeing their family and it's rubbish but at least we have FaceTime and if the kids are happy then that's what's important xxx

This is such a grey area and I think the government are relying on each family to assess the risks and make their own choices. It would be wrong to say a straight no contact to all blended families where risk is minimal but at a time when people are being advised to not visit others, it's definitely right to be wary!

There will be some carrying on with normal contact while others have reduced it or stoped altogether. I believe the health of everyone in both households is the priority but I can also sympathise with the non residential parent who may not be able to see their kids for months on end. It's so tough.

In my case contact is still going ahead but both families are isolating and working from home.

In your case op there seems to be a lot more kids and stepkids involved not to mention a very long journey which could result in other exposures. Are there any vulnerable people in either household? Are any people in either house still working or coming into contact with others?

Children should definitely be staying in their own households at this time. You are correct.

I agree with you OP but only because of the large number of step children mixing between households. Otherwise I'd say it's ok as long as you trust they are following the lockdown rules properly.

My ex had made no attempts to arrange contact over the lockdown period. I could understand if he had vulnerable people coming in contact with him or if someone in our household was a key worker but nope.

Mascott apologies if I singled you out, but you made the point about the shoe being on the other foot and what the OP would think then. But the fact is it isn't. The DCs are with her.
I agree people can't have it both ways and my logic would be the same IF it were the other way round. The children should then stay with DF.
Unfortunately, this is a time for personal sacrifices. My fb feed is full of NHS workers looking for alternative accommodation so they don't put their families at risk. Both male and female and many with DCs. One of my friends' wife is a clinical lead at the new Nightingale hospital in London. She is now in a hotel for the duration. Away from her DCs. It is a noble and selfless sacrifice she is making. Another friend is type 1 diabetes and her DCs are with her XH for the duration. Again, a sacrifice she has realised she has to make.

Bottom line is that a period without direct contact is not going to destroy the parent-child bond. People have to look beyond their own personal interests.

I'm a family lawyer so have been advising a lot of people about this.

I am all for kids seeing both parents as normal but I personally think the 5-hour drive (10 hours there and back) is way too much right now.

I would personally leave it for the next 2 weeks and then go from there. The restrictions may have been lifted by then.
In the future, I would also change some of the contact weekends to him having them for most of the school holidays instead. That must be so tiring to do that every other weekend.

As a side note, it is lovely to hear a dad that actually travels all that way to see his children, a lot won't travel 10 minutes.

If ex isn't working then why cant they do say two weeks with you and two weeks who dad. Awful kids are saying they dont want to see their dad

@TooTrusting I couldn't agree more

@TooTrusting in your opinion is it ok for contact to go ahead if both families are low risk and isolating (other than shopping?)

Thank you for all the replies.

The long journey for contact has always been an issue, their father moved away and despite me offering many more practical solutions for the kids contact he refuses point blank to dodo any other option.
My eldest struggles with this because it means he misses out on things he wants to do such as football matches and friends social events. This is background info as it is relevant to the bigger picture.

@TooTrusting sacrifices shouldn’t be made by children though. I’m a lawyer too btw

I thank the heavens that my ex is sensible and puts the DCs above his own desires.
When we separated he lived 3.5/4 hours away. The DCs (who were young) hated the alternate weekend travelling. When I raised this he didn't dismiss me, he listened to me. We changed it to every 3 weeks ( I had proposed an alternative to keep the every 2 week routine). He now lives a bit closer (about 2 hours). He recognises that as the DCs are older and have friends here and football/rugby matches, that they will want to weekend here too so he Air Bnbs. I reciprocate by offering him my house if I plan to be away, to save him the money. But not everyone can be sensible (and there are DV issues for many).

@Mascotte yes I'm afraid they do, in this instance. It's very unfortunate but there are cases where isolation/lockdown trumps contact arrangements.

@serialnamechanger27 yes

Mascotte, I have been mulling this over. Yes. Yes they do! All our children are making sacrifices in lockdown! The priority is abiding by the lockdown conditions. There are limited exceptions which do not dictate that children must go. We are expected to apply common sense!

Tootrusting talks a great deal of sense.

I wouldn't send them for all the reasons outlined. Your ex is not acting in their best interests.

I disagree. The risks are minimal and it’s based on one parent’s anxiety about a minimal risk as opposed to the best interests of the children.

You do realise, OP, that the incidence of covid in Scotland is far lower than in England? I'd be sending them to their fathers for a week rather than just the weekend. But if you're not prepared to do that, then expect them to go for an extended period as soon as the lockdown is over. That would be the fairest thing to do.
IME, children don't want to go to a parent when the other parent doesn't want them to go. Seeing parents trump football and friends.

Really feel for you and your kids OP. No way should they be making this journey and being exposed to so many people both directly and indirectly. Listen to your lawyer.

I’m in shock that he’s driving 20 hours every other weekend normally! But agree it’s just not doable at the moment.
I sympathise with your younger one, I was never interested in seeing my dad when I was younger and always felt forced into visiting. Also I’d feel worried about what would happen if they fell ill a 5 hour drive away and just wanted to be with you. I think it’s sensible to keep them with you for now, if he was really that keen to see them he’d be taking you up on the FaceTime offer.