To not want schools to give up summer holidays

[littleblackdress04]

Just read in papers that it’s been proposed that kids go back to school in July/ August

I think this is a rubbish idea - if it’s going to be that long then just let them have a ‘normal’ summer and go back in September.

Kids have been cooped up because of this- I’d want to take mine to the hills, go camping & let them have some freedom. Then start school in September. This isn’t a holiday for them - it’s a horrible stressful period of being cooped up & not being able to live their normal lives.

While school gives a structure and is important, so are proper periods of holiday.

I’m really against the idea but aibu? Be interested to hear other thoughts. I’ve not been particularly worried about the kids education- they will catch up in time and it will be fine

Kids need to be back in school ASAP. If that means back to school during a "normal" holiday period then so be it. My son changes school in september and he needs every day he can get. Your holidays are less important than his education!

Only expressing my personal opinion and I an not a teacher in case you are wondering. I am the parent of a child who has had real issues at school and has been a different child at home.
I value education of course but this has been very unsettling and feel that I would prefer for them not to return early but if they fo than so be it.

I’m positively reassured that various of my friends all around the country agree that this is actually a quite a good idea and feel that a although a lot of people probably have holidays booked they will almost certainly be cancelled anyway. Even some of my teaching friends are very supportive as they recognise that many children are vulnerable and are placing a higher emphasis on this than wearing their union hat! So I’m not alone in being supportive of a summer holiday return for schools in England and Wales. Scottish Teachers are teaching a 100+ pupils remotely at secondary school level whilst getting their own kids working and really catering for all their pupils! So aside from those teachers wearing their union hat, the only other group of my friends against this measure are the very anxious whereby in they pulled their kids out of school six weeks ago and may not go back for a very very long time.

I’m very envious of my German friends whose kids are able to go back to school next week so they can reclaim their life too!

wearing their union hat

That would be protecting their conditions of service.

I’m very envious of my German friends whose kids are able to go back to school next week so they can reclaim their life too!

So having your children back at school is all about you, not their education.

@UHavinalaugh

Perfectly put, my thoughts exactly

@UHavinalaugh

My alarm has just gone off so I can get. Few hours marking in before my own children wake up, hence the super early post!

I had an absolutely awful day yesterday reading post after post that just seemed like an endless attack on my profession. I say ‘seemed’ as I’m not in a very good place mentally at the moment and maybe super over sensitive.

Your post has really resonated with me. I have close friends who are nurses and I see their struggles. I speak to my mum’s care home every couple of days, they are always so positive but I bet that’s not how they’re truly feeling. So thank you.

I have obvious gone off topic but as this thread was originally started to discuss whether there should be a holiday but descended into a debate on teacher’s pay and conditions, work ethic and professionalism, I don’t suppose it really matters!

I'd be heartbroken if the summer hols are cancelled. I've not had a break since Christmas, I'm work 14 hours a day 6 days a week and August will be my first chance for a possible break. My day off I'm exhausted and need to rest so I haven't seen much of my daughter the last few months. Luckily she's mostly at home but also does an odd day at school when my husband has to work

I will need the summer hols to reconnect with my daughter and have fun. Teachers need a break too. I hate how much undeserved criticism they get on Mumsnet. They've worked trough Easter to support key workers which is unprecedented and I suspect the same will happen in May half term too.

Please don't rush to send children back to school. The truth is no one knows how this virus will affect immune systems long term- although children may not display symptoms, until we have more data, reliable antibody tests and ultimately a vaccine we should be ultra careful. COVID may lie dormant in the body like chicken pox does causing shingles in later life. 40% of people who had Ebola now have serious vision problems as that virus migrates to the eyes.
Over the summer we may see a reduced number of cases due to seasonal factors such as school being closed for holiday -but it will come roaring back in the autumn or as soon as we are all crammed back together in heated rooms.

We just don't know how things will play out- we should take the precautionary approach and hold the government strongly to account for lost earnings.
Summer holidays are important to provide a further firebreak in the fight against the virus and they are an existing infection control measure- when you think about it like that it's not about greedy teachers or lazy parents

No your not because some teachers,pupils and staff are still in school, so why should they miss out on their break, plus lockdown is not a holiday

Teachers are still working during lock down.

Totally correct in that we are paid during the holidays but do not receive “holiday pay” AT ALL if employed in a state school in England.

Teachers Pay = 1265 hours for 190 days work onsite/offsite (5 of those to be CPD) as directed by management. Annual salary for those 1265 hours, divided by 12 for a monthly salary.

Not sure (and apologies as am sure it’s here somewhere) why some people seem to think teachers get paid for the holidays?

teaandajammydodger
We accrue statutory minimum annual leave of 28 days but this is to be taken during normal school closures. No additional leave to take as we desire. No additional pay.

4.9 ACCRUAL OF STATUTORY ANNUAL LEAVE DURING MATERNITY LEAVE
"The position is complex but the majority of women teachers returning from maternity leave will not be entitled to annual leave on their return."

"Teachers are entitled to 28 days’ statutory annual leave under the Working Time Regulations and they must be allowed to take this leave outside of their maternity leave."

"Teachers will accrue their statutory annual leave during their maternity absence.The situation is complex because the Working Time Regulations also state that employers can determine when the statutory leave is taken and teacher employers have advised that the statutory leave should be offset against periods of school closure."

"The annual leave year as far as teachers are concerned usually runs from 1 September-31 August. In most cases, therefore, periods of school closure before and after the maternity leave period will more than equal the 28 day annual leave entitlement."

"Teachers who resign and do not, therefore, return at the end of their maternity leave period may, in some cases, be entitled to additional payment in lieu of their accrued annual leave entitlement. In the case of teachers who resign, any additional payment will help off-set any occupational maternity pay that has to be re-paid following a failure to return to work for 13 weeks."

neu.org.uk/media/2551/view

What does maternity entitlement have to do with any of this?

My son changes school in september and he needs every day he can get. Your holidays are less important than his education!

What about the children of keyworkers who have been in school every day? Surely they deserve a break too. Or is it only your child that matters?

Oh ffs just stop it already. Summer holidays will not be cancelled. No matter how much you all need to reclaim your lives and go back to work. As much as I love being treated like a babysitter, there is simply no money to pay the teachers to work through the summer. It really is as simple as that.

Sounds like it!

That was to " Or is it only your child that matters?"

Also looking at the issue of school over the summer holidays from a childs perspective..

I hated school, and was severly bullied to the extend my parents where called in and told to move me because there was nothing the school(s) could do. I had undiagnosed adhd and autism and was bullied due to being "different" to the extend that I have severe anxiety and depression as a adult but have been fortunate enough to complete HE and have a job I love.

But school was my idea of hell, I loved learning but hated physically being in school, I was suicidal and self harmed intermittedly while in school, and after the stress of lock down and CV (which I struggle with as a adult so I would hate to imagine how badly I'd have coped as a child/teen), losing my summer holidays and thus extending the autumn term by 3-6 weeks (the autumn term being the one I hated the most, and the period of time I still struggle with the most as a adult), it simply would have been too much and would have really pushed me over the edge.
And I was a very resilient child surprisingly.

Mental health issues in children have increased hugely since I was in school (or have become better reported) so I would hate to even consider the impact extending the first term of school would have on many children and teens.

I also imo think that for many children who rely on routine strongly (eg autism, adhd, anxiety) that changing the terms around and having a HUGE disruption to the routine of the entire school year would be also incredibly distressing (not saying for all, but in my personal experience it would be, and also for many friends or those I've worked with) and even for adults, never mind for children who are already incredibly distressed due to the disruption and stress caused by coronavirus.

No one needs this holiday after lockdown ? Not everyone is at home some of us are still working in really difficult conditions. As a frontline NHS worker I think I would like a holiday with my family. In the hopeful event that I will be well enough to have one.

Oh ffs just stop it already. Summer holidays will not be cancelled. No matter how much you all need to reclaim your lives and go back to work. As much as I love being treated like a babysitter, there is simply no money to pay the teachers to work through the summer. It really is as simple as that.

That says it all really!

No matter how much some parents want this to happen (there are posts on it EVERY July), it won’t.

Stepping right away from teacher and school staff pay, it’s been done to death. And whether teachers are still working, most are, drop it. Take up issues with your children’s Home education load with the school in question rather than putting all teachers in the same box.

Back to the topic of summer holidays on hand:

If the government did decide to reopen the schools when the holidays are meant to start, what year would the children be starting?

The new academic year? Do we get all new reception children to start in July instead? (Some will only be 3 years old!) so we send all the year 6s straight to their new secondary school in July to start year 7 early? Current year 10 will benefit as there now the summer to catch up with lost gcse work. Likewise current Year 12. This way, only Current year 13s will have the summer off. Unless the universities begin in July. Which I highly doubt.

Or does the summer count only as the current academic year? So likewise Year 10 and 12 will be ok most likely. But Year 6s will say goodbye to their primary school last Friday in August and say hello to secondary the following Monday. Current preschoolers will still have the summer. Year 11 will therefore have to have the summer off because the year 11 curriculum is mostly finished ready for exams.

The autumn term is already bloody long - often. 8 weeks first half and 7 weeks second half. Our nativity (last week of term in December) was missing all but one wiseman, we had no Mary and multiple others were missing. We had no sheep. Because the children were getting so ill by the end they weren’t holding up. Check the attendance rates by the end of term. They aren’t great. There’s no way adding 6 weeks to the start will work for the children. They’ll be shattered and totally unproductive. You’ll need to add in some holiday in between , either ether government will have to set it so all schools are off at the same time or you’ll have chaos where families are spread across several schools. And then you’ll have to put in holiday clubs where there’s not normally holiday clubs. The holiday club at our school is largely manned by paid uni students over the summer. If they aren’t off, who will run it? TAs? What if they have children?

I don't know for other DCs. I know for my son he would prefer the holidays. My daughter though I think needs the transition from lock down to seeing others again and then school. I think going from working alone in her room to do the work set by the teacher, to being in a busy school full time, would be hard. I also worry about kids whose parent or grandparent has died during this. They will need extra pastoral care. I don't think this as straightforward as kids all start back, whenever that is, and all kids will be acting as if it is just any other day.

This

No matter how much you all need to reclaim your lives and go back to work.

From LaProfesora says it all to me, for all of this talk of compromise, it is all about getting someone else to give something up for nothing, and I would also change "need" for "want".

Yes no compromise. Just accept you may die and you will not get paid for your work.

There are lots of teachers/Ta's who go into teaching because they've wanted to be a teacher all their lives and they are amazing. There are teachers who clockwatch and can't wait to leave. There are teachers that start and leave during their contracted hours and there are some who are 'gold dust,' and make each and everyday exciting and engaging for our children. There are teachers who mark and give feedback and teachers who simply use a stamp or in my experience of a previous mainstream school for my Autistic son who can't read, "why have you stuck the wrong LO into your book, this is a year 2 LO?" That was the comment that day and similar comments on other days until we moved him.

My point is, there are outstanding teacher's, good teachers and then the the example above, truly shocking teachers who are in the wrong job and you can bet they're the clock watchers.

The same with TA's. There are amazing TA's who go above and beyond and some whom don't.

The best schools are a mix of outstanding and good teachers. My son was at his new School for only a few weeks before he read his first book to me - he'd never read to me before.

There are Teachers and TA's do work really hard and give above and beyond. So anyone who states they don't work long hours - the amazing, really good, outstanding, want your children to be excited about learning teachers do! Check your children's books, teachers marking, your children's progress - all this speaks volumes. Try not to compare to others in their year (which is hard,) know where they started and how they are getting on throughout the term. Those of you who are worried about missing school - everyone is in the same boat.

Health, health, health at this current time must come first. A happy and healthy family must come first. If anyone returns it's most likely to be children who are venerable for whatever reason. One of my children has special needs and he's not considered venerable but personally I'd rather have my children secure, healthy and happy at home than in school right now. We need to know the bigger picture and that will take time. As far as school and education goes we are all "frozen" for the time being and National Curriculum criteria/standards may need to allow for this while children aren't safe to be in school.

I'm assuming everyone is thinking educationally for their children as I type this. X