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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To not want schools to give up summer holidays

963 replies

littleblackdress04 · 12/04/2020 09:32

Just read in papers that it’s been proposed that kids go back to school in July/ August

I think this is a rubbish idea - if it’s going to be that long then just let them have a ‘normal’ summer and go back in September.

Kids have been cooped up because of this- I’d want to take mine to the hills, go camping & let them have some freedom. Then start school in September. This isn’t a holiday for them - it’s a horrible stressful period of being cooped up & not being able to live their normal lives.

While school gives a structure and is important, so are proper periods of holiday.

I’m really against the idea but aibu? Be interested to hear other thoughts. I’ve not been particularly worried about the kids education- they will catch up in time and it will be fine

OP posts:
MamaGee09 · 14/04/2020 12:37

@Rosebel
No it’s high school. Posted by the head of department and liked by many teachers in the school. Thankful for these teachers who care,

FrippEnos · 14/04/2020 12:52

teaandajammydodger

Strange that no-one has volunteered.

Iateallthecookies000 · 14/04/2020 12:55

Teachers, are you really prepared to put your life on the line with hundreds of germ filled kids for this set of entitled parents?

Put your own health and the health of your own kids first. I’d rather be alive with no paycheck.

teaandajammydodger · 14/04/2020 13:00

I really love my job and love the children and families at my school but it pains me to think that some of the parents might be like some of the posters on here (or might be some of them!). It makes me question all that I do above and beyond my job.

Clavinova · 14/04/2020 13:07

Permanent school teachers in England and Wales governed by the Burgundy Book are paid an annual salary accruing at a daily rate.They are paid for the holidays (teachers in Scotland receive 40 days' holiday at full pay).

If they take a day of unauthorised absence their salary is deducted at 1/365th of annual salary. If they were not paid for the holidays a different calculation would be used and the school would be able to deduct more than 1/365th.

Deduction of Salary
"3.2 In addition to the provisions of Sections 4, 5 and 6, where authorised unpaid leave of absence or unauthorised absence (e.g. strike action) occurs deductions of salary shall be calculated at a daily or part-daily rate based on the day’s salary being 1/365th of a year for each day of the period of absence."

Sick Pay
"If, during the period of closure of a school a teacher falls ill and becomes entitled to Statutory Sick Pay or becomes or would become (but for election to be excepted from liability to pay contributions) entitled to claim any of the benefits referred to in sub-paragraph 5.1 above, it shall be his/her duty to notify the employer thereof (in accordance with sub-paragraph 8.1 below as if the days of closure were working days) so that the employer may either pay Statutory Sick Pay (where appropriate) or make the appropriate deductions."

However,
"A full-time teacher must be available for work on 195 days and, on 190 of these, the teacher may be required to teach pupils.The number of hours for which teachers can be directed to teach or undertake other professional duties is subject to a limit of 1,265." "On top of this teachers are expected to work ‘reasonable additional hours’ to fulfil their professional responsibilities."

So, yes the government probably would have to pay teachers extra to teach in the school holidays - unless of course they furlough teachers now (with a skeleton staff of teachers/supply teachers/support staff to care for key worker and vulnerable pupils) - so that they don't reach their limit of 1,265 hours directed time before the summer holidays.

Saying that - my dc attend a private school and they are still receiving more or less a full timetable during term time - so I wouldn't expect their school to open for lessons in the summer holidays.The school runs holiday clubs in any case which could cater for key worker children.

luckylorca · 14/04/2020 13:12

....It’s a rubbish idea!

  • we will all really need fun, proper holidays when this is over, not taking traumatised kids to school every day
  • summer is hot (hopefully), so it’s hard for kids to work, commute, do PE lessons etc
  • we will have had so little sun by July/August (particularly those in flats or self-isolating) that we will all need to get out and ENJOY the summer. Also important to get the vitamin D which we will all desperately need by then (and which can cause major problems if you’re deficient)
  • if kids were schooled in the summer, would it then be a 6 month term, finishing at Xmas?! Or would they then have a “summer” holiday in the cold, wet autumn?!

Crazy idea....!

Let’s have a proper, fun summer, then get back to “normal” in September (....although that may still be too optimistic!!....)

FrippEnos · 14/04/2020 13:21

Welcome back Clavinova, knew that you couldn't keep away.

Notice that apart from where Clav posts her opinion on teachers and holiday pay, nothing win what she quotes actually says anything about it.

pollyanna1962 · 14/04/2020 13:28

Some parents since having their little darlings have found they now have an autistic child who needs structure, who may even crave that structure and want to go back, the siblings also need that respite too from the autistic sibling.
My other comment is if you have a good salary for 39 weeks you are lucky. Many now are work less and salary less at least your job is safe. I know a teacher on an 8 week rota to work, they did their week 3 weeks ago and now have nothing to do for 7 weeks and get paid.

Appuskidu · 14/04/2020 13:31

If they take a day of unauthorised absence their salary is deducted at 1/365th of annual salary

It’s just because teachers are salaried and there’s 365 days in the year, so that’s how it’s calculated.

www.devereuxchambers.co.uk/assets/docs/publications/AB_and_AC_08.17_ELA_Briefing-Stike_pay_deductions-the_consequences_of_Hartley_.pdf

Starlyte · 14/04/2020 13:33

"“No one needs that big holiday after lockdown“

Well, the teachers might. The vast majority of us are still working, you know."

No, most people DON'T know, and presume teachers have long hols, with nothing to do but get sun tanned, so let them know..
They also don't seem, apparently, to realise how stressful it is for teachers and kids to be shut in their homes, to not know what's happening for exams, to not be able to relax outside (not every one has the chance to have a garden!).
Obviously every one will need to get over this lockdown time, however long it lasts.

FrippEnos · 14/04/2020 13:35

pollyanna1962

They will be working on Schemes of work and lesson plans.

But you seem to know better.

FrippEnos · 14/04/2020 13:37

Starlyte
No, most people DON'T know, and presume teachers have long hols, with nothing to do but get sun tanned, so let them know..

Except that on here it means that we are just moaning.

Can't win.

SpoonOfPeanutButter · 14/04/2020 13:37

www.theguardian.com/education/2020/apr/14/education-was-never-the-sole-focus-of-schools-the-coronavirus-pandemic-has-proved-it

Just going to leave this here.

Some of the comments on here indicate the poisonous attitude towards the education system and those who work for it.

Appuskidu · 14/04/2020 13:37

I know a teacher on an 8 week rota to work, they did their week 3 weeks ago and now have nothing to do for 7 weeks and get paid

Right-so they are on a rota for key worker childcare, but don’t have to provide any work at all for their own classes.

A likely story!

SpoonOfPeanutButter · 14/04/2020 13:39

People also seem to forget that schools are currently doing the crucial job of safeguarding and ensuring welfare of children. This lockdown is NOT a holiday for school staff.

CallmeAngelina · 14/04/2020 13:39

Some parents since having their little darlings have found they now have an autistic child who needs structure,
If they have an EHCP, or are vulnerable, then they will probably qualify to attend school premises now anyway.

spanieleyes · 14/04/2020 13:39

they did their week 3 weeks ago and now have nothing to do for 7 weeks and get paid

My staff set all the work I've mentioned in addition to covering for key worker children in school, so they ( along with many, many other teachers) are doing both.

Perhaps we should just furlough teachers, pay them 80% of their salary and shut up schools completely, no key worker opening, no work set, no contact with social services, no online teaching, no delivering FSM. Then teachers could sit at home and do the nothing they are accused of!

bemusedmoose · 14/04/2020 13:41

If schools go back over summer my kids won't be going. I've been doing full on home school so they are upto date with all work.

The teachers are still in with over 150 students at ours so they need a break too, as do the kids who have needed to stay in.

Everyone who has been keeping us going also needs a break.

Appuskidu · 14/04/2020 13:44

Perhaps we should just furlough teachers, pay them 80% of their salary and shut up schools completely, no key worker opening, no work set, no contact with social services, no online teaching, no delivering FSM. Then teachers could sit at home and do the nothing they are accused of!

I expect some parents would still complain!

okiedokieme · 14/04/2020 13:51

There's no timescale confirmed, this is just another idea being suggested by a think tank! The private school my is head of us thinking they will have permission to reopen in May, they plan 2 x 5 week terms then back on the normal date after summer hols

CallmeAngelina · 14/04/2020 13:52

Perhaps we should just furlough teachers, pay them 80% of their salary and shut up schools completely,

Yep. Let's do it. I'm SO fed up with my profession being attacked in this way.
Fuck it.

Saoirse7 · 14/04/2020 13:54

We were doing so well to have this as a Clavinova free haven up until now, but her she comes with all her romanticised bullshit about her husband's school Hmm and how us teachers aren't doing enough...

SpoonOfPeanutButter · 14/04/2020 13:55

Perhaps we should just furlough teachers, pay them 80% of their salary and shut up schools completely, no key worker opening, no work set, no contact with social services, no online teaching, no delivering FSM. Then teachers could sit at home and do the nothing they are accused of!

Absolutely- the realisation that teacher do, and continue to do, vital work would soon hit.

AprilFloundering · 14/04/2020 13:58

Yes, go on then. I'll take 80% of my salary to do nothing while we're off. Imagine parents will quickly discover we haven't been doing 'nothing'.

bemusedmoose · 14/04/2020 14:00

All these people bashing teachers for getting paid for nothing - you have no idea!!

School is still open for key worker and special needs children, they have remained open over the Easter holidays too!

They are still sending out daily work and activities for their class and year group. Giving government and school updates daily.

They are hand delivering school meals and vouchers (yes they are as i know plenty of teachers and had mine hand delivered by our deputy head) there's a teacher up north who dons huge back packs every day and delivers a packed lunch to every child in his school that has free meals - the kids not only get fed but they are loving him for going the extra mile and wait at the window for him to come, it brings happiness in this crappy time.

So don't bash the teachers. I'm a volunteer and I see the work they do after parents have dropped off, how hard they work to meet every need of every child, how upset they get when parents send them abusive emails or shout at them for telling off their precious kid after he punched someone. How they arent doing enough to give dear sweet wotsit a more private education.....

Be thankful we have a free education system, step back and actually look at the human behind the teacher - do they look knackered!? Yes because 30 children all day is tiring. Most teachers get 20 mins for lunch and the ones i know don't even get any by the time they have sorted out problems.

Teachers arent having a holiday, and even when they do they are planning, sorting resources, trying to balance their extremely small class budgets so kids can have what they need, worrying about the kids they know have trouble at home, a lot of them are in school during holidays prepping....