To be so angry at the Chinese government

[HildegardeCrowe]

Because they didn’t shut the wet markets down permanently after SARS so another pandemic was inevitable. The rest of the world is now putting pressure on China to end it’s wildlife trade but this won’t be easy. Most of the world is in lockdown because of this trade and it’s so depressing to think history will repeat itself if China doesn’t get its act together.

The more I learn about how the Chinese abuse wild animals the angrier I get - the latest thing I read about is how they make the lives of bears a misery by extracting their bile.

Surely this is a PR disaster for China?

[Hingeandbracket]

I'm not saying that Britain can't call out bad things, I'm saying the hypocrisy is pretty ridiculous.
Because "Britain" is one homogenous mass entity with no divergence, just like Ireland?
Definitely full marks for most off-topic whataboutery and trying to divert the thread to your own agenda(s) - are you a politician?

[Handsoffisback]

thedailycarbuncle So based on your logic, we can’t criticise the appalling behaviour of Nazi Germany based on the fact that Britain has in the past committed human rights atrocities? It is not a competition. China are a communist regime. They have an appalling human rights record, treat animals utterly barbarically and silence criticism of their regime at any opportunity. They oppress their citizens by controlling access to media and the internet. They have in the past shot unarmed citizens engaging in lawful and peaceful protest. We are allowed to say these things. They happened. It is not racist. It is not Xenophobic. It is fact. This pandemic started in China and the evidence is very clear that it started due to the unhygienic practises in wet markets. They must be held accountable for this.

[KittyKattyKate]

If it weren’t for the Chinese

Rhinos wouldn’t be endangered
Ditto elephants
Ditto tigers
Ditto sharks

Yeah, even if I discount the latest virus they’ve created I’m definitely not a fan of the worlds biggest polluting nation, chief supplier of arms to crackpot despots, and all round communist enforcer.

[PlanDeRaccordement]

“They denied human-to-human transmission until late January. Taiwan had evidence of human-to-human transmission in December and alerted the Chinese health authority. What happened then?“

Not true. It was the WHO that waffled about and took their time confirming human to human transmission. China told the WHO on 7 January when the virus was isolated and sequenced. Subsequent reports from other countries and contact tracing showed it was human to human. However, the WHO took until 23 January to assess the evidence and finally confirm human to human transmission.

5 Jan China report
“Based on the preliminary information from the Chinese investigation team, no evidence of significant human-to-human transmission and no health care worker infections have been reported.”
“WHO does not recommend any specific measures for travellers. In case of symptoms suggestive of respiratory illness either during or after travel, travellers are encouraged to seek medical attention and share travel history with their healthcare provider.

WHO advises against the application of any travel or trade restrictions on China based on the current information available on this event.”


Even on 14 Jan after the Thailand case, the WHO risk assessment stated
“Additional investigation is needed to ascertain the presence of human-to-human transmission, modes of transmission, common source of exposure and the presence of asymptomatic or mildly symptomatic cases that are undetected. It is critical to review all available information to fully understand the potential transmissibility among humans.”

16 Jan when first case reaches Japan, the WHO is still saying
“Much remains to be understood about the new coronavirus, which was first identified in China earlier this month. Not enough is known about 2019-nCoV to draw definitive conclusions about how it is transmitted, clinical features of disease, or the extent to which it has spread. The source also remains unknown.

WHO encourages all countries to continue preparedness activities. On 10 January, WHO published information on how to monitor for cases, treat patients, prevent onward transmission in health care facilities, maintain necessary supplies, and communicate with the public about 2019-nCoV. The information includes advice on how to maintain hand and respiratory hygiene, and safe food and market practices. WHO is developing and updating this information in consultation with networks of experts across the globe.

WHO’s interim guidance and other information on coronaviruses can be found here

WHO advises against the application of any travel or trade restrictions based on the information available. If travellers develop respiratory illness before, during or after travel, they should seek medical attention and share travel history with their health care provider.”

21 Jan and the WHO is sort of admits human to human transmission
“WHO risk assessment

This is the fourth internationally exported case of 2019-nCoV from Wuhan City, China by travelers. Since the initial report of cases on 31 December 2019, and as of 20 January 2020, 278 laboratory-confirmed cases of 2019-nCoV infection including six deaths were reported to WHO globally from China, two cases from Thailand, one case from Japan, and one case from the Republic of Korea. In China, 51 are severe cases, and 12 cases are critically ill. They are all under isolation treatment at designated medical institutions in Wuhan. Among the cases reported in China, 14 cases have been reported from Guangdong province, five from Beijing municipality and one from Shanghai municipality.

The source of the outbreak is still under investigation in Wuhan City. Preliminary investigations have identified environmental samples positive for nCoV in Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market in Wuhan City, however some laboratory-confirmed patients did not report visiting this market. Cases continue to be reported from Wuhan City, and from other provinces in China. Additional investigations are needed to determine how the patients were infected, the extent of human-to-human transmission, the clinical spectrum of disease, and the geographic range of infection”

[twirlycat77]

Why would anyone think it’s racist to be annoyed with China. Thousands are dying across the world, the world has come to a practical standstill ffs, it stems from those meat markets in China. Of course we should be annoyed with them.
People think anything is racist these days.

[TheDailyCarbuncle]

Because "Britain" is one homogenous mass entity with no divergence, just like Ireland?

If it's not possible to talk about Britain as a single entity, then it's not possible to talk about China as a single entity.

[Pelleas]

I have always been a meat-eater but this virus has made me seriously question whether that's a good idea.

[Mimishimi]

Germany had to pay billions in reparations.

There will be similar demands on China to shore up already heavily indebted, overstretched Western countries.

Which makes the origins of the virus very, very suspect IMO

[Oliversmumsarmy]

Getting angry towards the country that raises the alarm is counter productive. We should be thanking China

But it only raised the alarm when it was too late.

It was told about this virus and they refused to do anything about it.
The one raising the alarm had to sign a gagging order.

As for not closing the wet markets because it might destabilise a community.

Surely mass death, shutdowns of everything everywhere is going to be worse.

Just because a culture has done something for a long time does not make it right otherwise we would still be fox hunting every week and bear baiting

[PlanDeRaccordement]

KittyKatty
Love how you have ignored two centuries of European big game hunters on the population of rhinos, elephants and tigers! Oh, no European is to blame, it’s only the Chinese to blame because they used byproducts of the European big game/trophy hunting industry.

[PlanDeRaccordement]

Oliver’s mummy
The Wuhan Seafood Market was closed on 1 January, the day after the outbreak was identified as a new virus- 31st December.

[goldpartyhat]

They have supposedly shut or regulated them better, but who really believes that.

It's not just wet markets though. Swine flu and Avian flue came about because farming practices meant intensive farming in poor conditions, which facilitate novel viruses jumping species. Not Chinese

[Kokeshi123]

China is doing this RIGHT NOW.

Do you honestly not think that there is a difference?

The CCP has behaved absolutely appallingly throughout. True to form.

[Chillicheese123]

You can’t say anything about covid and China on here. I wonder if you can talk about the massive human rights violations and forced Labour camps in Uighur regions or is that racist too?

[PlanDeRaccordement]

“But it only raised the alarm when it was too late.“

When I look at the dates, the alarm was raised very quickly by China.
31st December the alarm was raised by China, which was over a week before the first death. I think the WHO has a lot to answer for because their risk assessments until 23 Jan advised against any travel or trade restrictions and they kept saying over and over that “more evidence” was needed before they could confirm human to human transmission.
I suggest you go to the WHO website and read all the reports starting with 5 Jan.

[ShanghaiDiva]

Being critical the Chinese govt is not racist. The posts which were removed made vile comments about Chinese people and were racist.

[MangoFeverDream]

Not true. It was the WHO that waffled about and took their time confirming human to human transmission. China told the WHO on 7 January when the virus was isolated and sequenced. Subsequent reports from other countries and contact tracing showed it was human to human. However, the WHO took until 23 January to assess the evidence and finally confirm human to human transmission

So now you are blaming the WHO instead of the Chinese government. At least you are one step closer .....

Let’s ask Dr. Ai Fen, here’s her Wiki entry:

On the morning of 11 January 2020, Ai receives the news that Hu Ziwei, a nurse of the emergency department, has been infected. Ai called her superiors immediately and the hospital had an emergency meeting, in which the officials directed to change the medical observations of the infected nurse from "viral pulmonary infection?" to "spread-out pulmonary infection." In a meeting on 16 January 2020, officials of the hospitals insisted on denying the virus infection that could be transferred among humans

Now you might say that’s the hospital’s business, but as a public hospital they would be under a lot of pressure from local authorities to keep this quiet. Further endangering us all, by the way.

I wish we could ask Dr. Ai more about this virus, but alas, she’s been disappeared. Great government, this one.

[PlanDeRaccordement]

I don’t think one case in one country would have caused the WHO to waffle. Remember they were getting reports from Taiwan, Japan, and N Korea as well. Only if all the countries were engaging in a mass cover up would that excuse the WHO from being so slow. Not likely.

[PlanDeRaccordement]

Btw, I’m not blaming the WHO. I’m merely pointing out that part of the delay in the world realising how serious COVID was due to the WHO.
It’s a series of unfortunate events.

[Brefugee]

Also, Chinese New Year was in late January this year and the government allowed them to go abroad and other Chinese regions, spreading it carelessly around the globe.

CNY was the last week of January. At that time there is massive movement in the country which would have been almost impossible to stop. At that time the Chinese government made the only decision they could: they allowed people to travel to their families/home provinces and then stopped them going anywhere else.

CNY was pretty much cancelled (which is a huge thing) and then lockdown was implemented which is only now being slowly and carefully lifted.

Factories and businesses are cautiously reopening just at the time when they can't export because everywhere else is closing down. They still have severely limited travel, and many factories are still checking their workers' temperatures on arrival and leaving.

Did they make mistakes? undoubtedly. Did other countries make mistakes? undoubtedly (AFAIK you can fly into the UK without being automatically checked and quarantined, for example). But the idea that China would willingly tank it's own and the world economy for some reason is laughable.

[SharonasCorona]

@sunfloweryy

China wants to have its cake and eat it too. If it is going to be a superpower and allow literally millions of its citizens to go abroad then it has a responsibility to the rest of the world to update its animal welfare standards so diseases like this are less likely to originate.

‘Letting’ its citizens go abroad? Why shouldn’t they? Does your country ‘let’ you go abroad?

Lots of people will say it’s racist, other countries have their problems etc but there’s really no excuse for it anymore.

Coronaviruses can be transmitted in many different ways, shutting down wet markets will not prevent their transmission. For example, MERS-CoV passed from bats to camels to humans in Saudi Arabia. People have been eating camel meat and drinking camel milk for thousands of years. Should we ban all camel meat?

The next time it could happen on a cow farm.

I don’t know what the answer is but I don’t like this racist view that Chiba should be grateful that its citizens are allowed to travel.

[Peopleshouses]

winterisstillcoming

Didn't we give the world CJD??

Which wasn't contagious at all so didn't spread to erm like anywhere

[Mittens030869]

All epidemics have an original cause, and often humans are involved somewhere. For example, BSE was caused by cows being fed on offal from pigs, as I recall, and then the Major government was very slow to make the connection between BSE and vCJD. Thankfully, there weren't as many deaths as was feared there might be, but it was always fatal once victims became symptomatic and it was a horrific death.

Where governments really went wrong was in not being prepared. They had had warnings that a pandemic was likely to happen, way back in 2016 Bill Gates was warning about the threat. Apparently (I heard on the news), President Obama did make preparations, and then when Trump became President he cancelled the order.

And our government was woefully unprepared, unlike for example South Korea and Germany.

I'm certainly not letting China off the hook, they clearly delayed far too long before alerting the rest of the world to what was happening. If there hadn't been a whistleblower who knows when they would have said anything.

But we could and should have been far better prepared.