To be really disappointed in Neils Yard?

[Reginabambina]

I’m not under any illusions that Neil’s Yard products are amazing but they’re nice and have a shop local to me so I get stuff there occasionally and have found some nice products over the years. Today a post came up on a community page on fb reminding us to ‘support local business’ from someone claiming to be a Neil’s Yard ‘consultant’. A quick look on their website reveals that they operate as an MLM on the side. I feel really disappointed, I thought this was a legitimate business and have been buying their products for years (and more embarrassingly giving them as gifts). Is it a total overreaction to never use them again?

I won't bother trying to convince you. if you have a problem like cramp for example. Try it. I don't know why but the Arnica remedy does work.

There is no way it harms like some mainstream meds that's for sure. Think of the ADs that have killed a lot of people.

Love that donquixotedelamancha.

YANBU. Similar to Bodyshop - used to be an ethical brand and has now sold out and gone down the MLM road.

One of the people I was at school with does Bodyshop at home - no idea why as she has a proper, well-paid professional job. She posted today :

"So many companies have had to close during Covid19, meaning that a lot of people are out of work. Why not try it out just to earn abit of income until this unpredictable period is over."

Inappropriate. Misleading. Grabby. Desperate.

MLM as a business model should be banned as it is a pyramid scheme whicj keeps just to the right side of the law and exploits women. Zero respect for these companies.

Oh so killing cats and dogs, mice, rats etc etc.... really helps humans does it?

don If you read the thread you would've read that Ben Goldacre has evidence that Big Pharma MAKES UP and or CHANGES it's results if they don't agree with it's hypotheisis. I notice that everyone has ignored that interesting finding of his.

www.verywellhealth.com/the-benefits-of-arnica-89542

Possible Side Effects
Arnica is known to cause side effects even when used in highly diluted topical preparations. More serious side effects can occur when taken by mouth.

Topical Use
Arnica may cause a mild allergic reaction, most notably in people with a pre-existing allergy to plants of the Asteraceae family, including ragweed, marigolds, chrysanthemums, and daisies.7

Arnica can also trigger transient increases in blood pressure and heart rate, particularly if used excessively or on broken skin.1 Broken skin allows for greater absorption of the active ingredient and may also cause localized stinging.

Oral Use
Most homeopathic arnica remedies are extremely diluted and considered safe. However, some forms may contain detectable amounts of helenalin which may pose health risks.

When taken by mouth, arnica can cause:1

Mouth and throat irritation
Stomach pain
Diarrhea
Vomiting
Shortness of breath
Easy bruising and bleeding
Rapid heartbeat
High blood pressure

Mainstream medicine has been tested to within an inch of it's life and works for the most part. Of course there are side effects, but those are freely available for anyone to see on the little leaflet that comes in the packet. My husband had many treatments for bladder cancer and it was nasty stuff and he definitely felt worse having the treatment than he did with just the cancer. However, and it's a big however, it worked and he's still here today.

"Natural" does not mean safe by any means and giving people water as a cure for anything is grossly irresponsible.

But ppeatfruit you have NO evidence that homeopathy works. No studies that you can point to? Proper ones I mean.

I'm not naive about pharmaceutical companies. I'm sure there are problems with ethics going out the window where huge amounts of money are concerned, but that doesn't mean that we can turn our backs on the medicines that are being produced that work and save lives.

I'm certainly relying on them to find a vaccine for covid 19. Aren't you? Or will you not have the vaccine when it is produced? Will you rely on homeopathy to keep you healthy?

Oh and on the homeopathy thing - it doesn't work. Anyone with half a brain and a couple of science GCSEs must realise that it can't POSSIBLY work. The placebo effect is powerful.

Someone I was at Uni with - previously a friend but no longer - hooked up with a guy who was strongly into "woo" and off she went and trained as a homeopath. Expensive training, lots of time given up, lots of essays, practical work. She did well because she is an empathic, warm person with great listening skills. She makes people feel good about themselves and that's why she retains clients, not because she dishes out phials of magic water.

don If you read the thread you would've read that Ben Goldacre has evidence that Big Pharma MAKES UP and or CHANGES it's results if they don't agree with it's hypotheisis.

I read that comment. I have read Ben's book (it's very good, people should read it). I was already familiar with some of the problems in the way Pharmaceutical research is conducted (though you mischaracterise what he says). None of that has any relevance to this discussion.

Would you like to fund a double blind trial to prove how effective homeopathy is?

I will genuinely run it or assist in finding a university to do so if you feel my credentials are insufficient.

If it works I will personally dedicate all my free time to making up Covid 19 treatment for free.

You have this special knowledge that homeopathy works, isn't it your duty to help save all those people who don't understand it as well as you?

What's risking a few k compared to all those lives you will save? After all, you know it works.

But ppeatfruit you have NO evidence that homeopathy works. No studies that you can point to? Proper ones I mean.

True, but she's going to singlehandedly change all that- aren't you ppeatfruit?

5 grand should give us a good start.

Re it being sold a few years back, it is now owned by Peter Kindersley, of Dorling Kindersley books.

Well I hope you all will be very happy with your main stream meds. If they are so effective the hospitals wouldn't be bursting at the seams with ill people. Even before this virus.

Arnica as a herb taken neat is a poison.   I know that.  You don't have to tell me, but in Homeopathy it works  I don't know why as I said upthread.  

So thanks for your kind offer don I'll pass.

They were sold by the founders years ago and expanded with franchise shops and MLM and waitrose deal about 8 years ago? I bought the kit and although I had no illusions that I'd make any money, I just wanted the discount, a friend did see it as a potential business, the were pretty naughty as they encouraged the reps to buy make up samples, did a big push on it and then promptly discontinued the make up. They also expanded the waitrose business about the same time.
The products are nice, but its its not the ethical led business it once was. But I wonder what companies are?

Lots of herbs are used in conventional medicine. Digitalis - foxgloves - is highly toxic but processed to make heart medication. That's not homeopathy, just ordinary science. Aspirin comes from willow bark but nobody's suggesting you go out and munch on an entire tree when you have a headache.

"but in Homeopathy it works I don't know why as I said upthread" But it doesn't work. It CAN'T work as the whole ethos of homeopathy is diluting something so much that there isn't any of it left. You have to buy into the idea that water can remember what's been put into it and that diluting something makes it stronger - which is opposite to everything science and common sense teaches.

Blind faith in something working is a powerful effect - placebo effect and confirmation bias. That's why homeopathy "works" for some people. A properly double blind test would prove it has no effect beyond hte placebo.

Seriously?

My husband is delighted with every drug he had administered to him over a 7 year period. He might be minus 1 kidney and a portion of bladder, but he's fit and well now, thanks to scientists and amazing doctors and nurses. Credit where it's due please. What would homeopathy have done for him? Got a cure for that up your sleeve?

I'm not ignorant. I know about willow bark and digitalis and of course nature has chemicals which have proved incredibly useful. Bet they don't have untraceable amounts in a aspirin tablet and undetectable digitalis in a drug to treat heart disease.

You're sounding less credible with every post.

So thanks for your kind offer don I'll pass.

No worries. Instead, would you like to link to any peer reviewed double blind studies which demonstrate the effectiveness of homeopathy?

Wish there was an edit button. Sorry I thought peat had posted that PineappleDanish and i misread your point, so please ignore this paragraph :

I'm not ignorant. I know about willow bark and digitalis and of course nature has chemicals which have proved incredibly useful. Bet they don't have untraceable amounts in a aspirin tablet and undetectable digitalis in a drug to treat heart disease.

It feels nice to be having a good old debate about homeopathy again, rather than all the bullshit conspiracy theories I'm seeing on social media around coronavirus. Homeopathy - good, old-fashioned bollocks. Not like this new-fangled bullshit.

Funny, though, how many of the people currently sharing the New World Order, 5G, kids rescued from tunnels under Central Park bullshit also sell homeopathic 'remedies'. Coincidence?

ItsGoingTibiaK

I think that's why I'm throwing myself into this so much. Feels more like life B(before)C(coronavirus).

Do you listen to Qanon Anonymous podcast by any chance?

Placebo effects are being used by mainstream now. If it works what's the problem? I love these people who trash things they haven't used.

I hope your dh has changed his lifestyle since all the work the NHS has done otherwise he'll be back in hospital (unless he was injured of course). Dh used to get terrible effects from pork products , he doesn't eat it any more and he can walk well. Even without the Arnica treatment. I would never depend only on medics of any kind to give me good health.

@knittingaddict

I’ve just downloaded the latest episode to give it a listen while I queue to get in the supermarket (thanks for that, Bill Gates 😉)

Placebo effects are being used by mainstream now. If it works what's the problem?

I agree, trials of open placebo (where patients are told that the pill they are taking does nothing, but it still helps) are very encouraging for things like chronic pain relief.

That's a very different argument from either saying homeopathy is real, or that people who lie to patients to sell magic water are justified.

I hope your dh has changed his lifestyle since all the work the NHS has done otherwise he'll be back in hospital...I would never depend only on medics of any kind to give me good health."

That's a pretty fucking awful thing to say about someone's cancer. Are you seriously claiming that homeopathy and diet can cure life threatening illness and people should avoid medical treatment for things like cancer

I hope your dh has changed his lifestyle since all the work the NHS has done otherwise he'll be back in hospital (unless he was injured of course).

Wow, aren't you the offensive one peat. You know what cancer is, right? No not an injury (it's CANCER) and not lifestyle related either.

You're either massively deluded or on a wind up. Which?

Ppeat Do you think it's ethical to lie to patients if it cures them/ gives them a minor improvement? Not a 'gotcha' question, genuinely interested in views on this.

In the diversion onto homeopathy, this post got slightly overlooked:

I did it a few years ago, you pay for the starter kit which was worth much more than what I paid, then I ordered every month or two for me and a friend. It's lovely stuff, expensive, even with the 25% off, but as I said there's no pressure. I was chucked out eventually for not spending enough, but wasn't bothered.

So there is pressure and sales requirements. And that is where people who are trying to make money from their 'business' end up getting in to debt buying products themselves to meet minimum spends so they don't lose their business before it becomes a success (as they are assured it will).

Note to all MLM adherents: if you can be kicked out for not spending enough, it is not your business.

ItsGoingTibiaK

Hope you enjoy it. They can be a hit and miss and also a bit out there on occasions. The subject is certainly jaw dropping. Also hope you don't mind swearing and it's a bit "bro" sometimes. Well worth a listen though as I find people who wholeheartedly buy into conspiracy theories strangely fascinating.