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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Boris will pull through because he's a "fighter"

188 replies

HavelockVetinari · 08/04/2020 09:25

AIBU to find this extremely offensive? Are the thousands of people who've died of Covid dead because they just didn't fight hard enough?

Not acceptable, Raab.

OP posts:
Kitchendoctor · 08/04/2020 10:03

Everyone struggles to find the right thing to say in this kind of situation, although I agree it wasn’t very diplomatic.

msmith501 · 08/04/2020 10:04

Poorly chosen words albeit meant to be reassuring I guess.

loubieloo4 · 08/04/2020 10:04

Drives me crazy

Dh (39) has stage 4 terminal bowel cancer and from the start people have said he will beat this as he is a fighter 🤬 no he won't he is dying and it's not because he isn't fucking fighting

Wolfiefan · 08/04/2020 10:05

It’s a horrid phrase. If you don’t recover then you’re simply not a strong enough “fighter”. Makes it sound like your fault you died.

midsomermurderess · 08/04/2020 10:05

This has been done so many times before and far better. For a recent, very good exposition, see Marina Hyde in the Guardian.

RufustheLanglovingreindeer · 08/04/2020 10:05

It’s only slightly better than the whole “I prayed for them and God listened” angle, which I find even more offensive

Yes

Original poster
HavelockVetinari · 08/04/2020 10:07

@loubieloo4 I'm sorry about your DH. Life is really unfair sometimes Sad Flowers

OP posts:
Charoltteli · 08/04/2020 10:09

@loubieloo4 my god I’m so awfully sorry Flowers
I think people find it hard to know what to say. People saying ‘he’s a fighter’ is their way of trying not to be frank or morbid about the outcome because it’s not really their place to be frank or morbid. It’s hard to know what to say to someone in that position and I think people say it to try and maintain some normality and positivity even when the outlook isn’t good.
Again, I’m so sorry you’re in that position Flowers

loubieloo4 · 08/04/2020 10:12

@Charoltteli Thank you

I think in a lot of cases it's people not wanting to believe the truth, which messes it sooo much harder for me and the children.

BlueEyedPersephone · 08/04/2020 10:14

@loubieloo4 so sorry 💐
I actually think it is offensive to all those who have died as implies there is something they could have done e.g. fight.

At Raab level he should get stuff like this right, he has a team writing what he says!!!

DrCoconut · 08/04/2020 10:19

On another note that kind of talk suggests he's more ill than they are letting on, in the same way that his admission to intensive care seemed very sudden.

eaglejulesk · 08/04/2020 10:20

Wow - some of you are easily offended!

Charoltteli · 08/04/2020 10:24

@loubieloo4 I understand, it’s really interesting how different people see the phrase differently.
When my father was ill (for about 10 years) even when I knew it was terminal, I found the positive words and the whole ‘fighter’ thing very reassuring. Everyone knew what would happen in the end but we still called him a fighter.
He didn’t survive but his death to us didn’t equate to him not being strong enough to survive.
To us he was a fighter (even though he had panic attacks, anxiety, cried constantly), purely for having to live each day with the diagnosis and chemo. The mental strain of that made him a hero to us.

To me it really doesn’t have any negative connotations but I do understand your point of view Flowers

clareOclareO · 08/04/2020 10:28

YABU. It's a common phrase. What's he meant to say, "maybe he'll be fine, maybe he'll die, whatever. It's a horrible virus, no point worrying about people dying from it"?

MrsJoshNavidi · 08/04/2020 10:32

Isn't he being treated in an NHS hospital by NHS doctors and nurses??

Yes. But the NHS has some of the best doctors in the world, and St T's is one of the NHS's best hospitals.

LittleAndOften · 08/04/2020 10:32

It's an awful phrase. My cousin's husband recently died of a brain tumour. 'fighting' had nothing to do with it. It implies people have some element of control, which they don't. Boris may survive, he may not. He has no control.

Bubblebu · 08/04/2020 10:36

I agree with the OP.
Yes it is a turn of phrase, yes people do use phrases like that but it is not correct.
I have cancer and I have heard people who have never had cancer talk about people they knew who have fought and "won" against cancer.
It does not work like that. Sure you can improve your own health and well being, live as healthy a life as you can to try to give yourself the best chance of recovery etc, but ultimately there are many many factors outside people's control which dictate whether people "beat" illnesses or diseases they are diagnosed with.
Better to say simply how happy you felt if someone recovered from something rather than infer that that person had a direct hand in their own recovery like they were somehow in control of both being struck down by it and also recovering from it. By inference it clearly suggests that those who die just did not fight hard enough. Rubbish.

knittingaddict · 08/04/2020 10:38

OhClover

I don’t particularly like the phrase but I don’t think it’s “extremely offensive” either.

My husband had cancer for 7 years and we've had numerous relatives and friends die from cancer. I think it's very offensive.

I'm sure others have already mentioned that it suggests that it's something lacking in the person if they die from it and that those who pull through are somehow superior people.

On the whole all you can do is ride the wave, rely on medicine to cure you or at least make you feel better.

My husband's cancer wasn't lifestyle related either, so there was absolutely nothing he could do, apart from endure some horrible treatments as well as he could.

Thankfully he's alive and well and we are incredibly thankful for the amazing nurses and doctors who made that happen.

TotesGodsWill · 08/04/2020 10:39

YANBU I was thinking the same yesterday. It’s like saying the thousands who died just didn’t try hard enough and he’s somehow better than them.

saraclara · 08/04/2020 10:43

@loubieloo4 I'm sorry you're going through this. It was my husband's death from the same type of cancer, that brought a phrase I'd always disliked even more to the fore.

We never used the word fighting, battling or anything similar. My husband managed his illness with courage and good humour, while the doctors fought his cancer.

Obviously if other patients want to use the fighting and battling words, that's their prerogative. But I very much advise non-sufferers from doing so without a clear indication that the patient wants it.

knittingaddict · 08/04/2020 10:44

Wow - some of you are easily offended!

eaglejulest Why don't you do away and think about it for 5 minutes and then perhaps you'll see why this stock phrase upsets people.

earlgreynomilk · 08/04/2020 10:46

It's an awful choice of phrase and insulting to those who have died of Covid or cancer where I have often heard it used too.

The implication is that those who have died simply didn't fight hard enough which is clearly total rubbish and insulting to these people and their families.

Dominic Raab should not have said it.

Doobydoo · 08/04/2020 10:48

I loathe that sort of talk too..whether it is people with cancer, babies on NICU or anything else.

Zeusthemoose · 08/04/2020 10:49

I think there is a thoughtlessness behind the sentence but people trot these things out because they are trying to say something positive at a difficult time.

My friend died of cancer leaving her young son behind. I know how hard she fought but despite this she didn't win. It does strike a chord with me whenever people say it but I understand it's not coming from a bad place.

Awwlookatmybabyspider · 08/04/2020 10:49

YANBU. It’s nothing at all to do with fighting or giving up. Whether you survive or not is basically in the lap of the Gods.