To be fed up with shop shamers on here

[MonaLisaDoesntSmile]

Firstly, please dont think I encourage people going out three times a day to get some chocolate or ice cream or whatever. The guidance is clear to go as infrequently as possible (although unlike some people think, it's NOT to go shopping once a week or fortnight). However, the amount of people saying stuff along the lines - your shopping is not essential/ we did it, therefore everyone else can do it/you don't need this or that/ you can make your own bread* (whatever other item) is a bit shocking. In times when empathy is particularly important too.

So just to say, the reason while some people cannot just go out to shop once a month like you:

• some people have multiple food allergies and/or have limited diet, making shopping and finding the items needed more difficult.
• some shops around are not well stocked as those in other areas and essentials are not always available the time they go shopping
• not everyone has an industrial size fridge and freezer. I for one have no space to freeze 4 gallons of milk or 2 loafs of bread
• not everything people may need freezes well
• some delivery shops offer fresh produce which expire quickly. Our only delivery which we managed to sort out over the last two weeks had everything expiring within 2/3 days, with the bread expiring the next day, not a week like we hoped, we were not able to freeze all the stuff we wanted either. My two local small shops are notorious for selling fruit and veg which lasts 2-3 days is we're lucky
• not everyone had an amazingly stocked pantry before, nor space to buy a lot of items with long shelf life
• one's person essentials are not the same as other people- the fact someone do not consider something as essential does not mean it is also not essential for other people and the other way round
• not everyone has a car and can do a huge shop infrequently
• not everyone has an amazing support network
• not everyone is lucky to have enough money to make one big shop a fortnight
• not everyone has local shops which deliver to your doorstep- we have nothing in our area, no butchers, no corner shops do home deliveries so we depend on ourselves having to go out and actually hope we can buy what we need
• not everyone has equipment, know how and/or ingredients to make lets say bread or whatever else people think you can magically whip up on the spot.
• some people do not have a great support network, and asking strangers to do a huge shop is not always possible

I'm sure there are other reasons too, we all have different needs.

I think isntead of shouting at others that they dare to go out shopping, maybe lets just accept that without knowing the circumstances it may be best not to judge? Everyone is doing their best with what we have.

A lot of people have just misunderstood the law.

It states that you are allowed out to buy 'essential items such as food'

So food (all types) are classed as 'essential'. You could literally buy whole trolly full of chocolate and it would still be perfectly within the law.

There is nothing at all about 'essential food items' which some people are (incorrectly) reading into the legislation.

nottoday honestly, no apology necessary. This is something that is really bugging you. I know that scratchcards aren't the whole issue but, handling cash for you should be out now and customers should accept that winnings either go back on their (contactless) card or they can write to head office (or wherever) for a cheque (or whatever).

I'm really on your side about 'non essential' purchases, it's just impossible to know whether people were in looking for something else and could't get it, picking up some other peripheral stuff at the same time - or whether they just came in for fripperies. We can't know. I'm sorry if I wound you up, I really didn't mean to do that, I hope that your manager will support you and put you out of harm's way if that's best for you, nobody should be doing their jobs in fear.

===

Generally, as for (particularly elderly) customers coming in for a visit, I don't know what can be done about that. They've gone through so much in previous years and it's made some - or most of that generation even - a bit gungho. My next door neighbour is 92, has lost her son and her brother and has practically had to be superglued to her sofa. It's a different mentality.

I can't bring myself to label these people as selfish because it's their life and, everybody who shops is putting themselves and others at risk whether they're in buying bread and milk - or make-up, they're still in the shop.

The way I see it is if most people comply then the risk is reduced. I've been mostly in the house and hate it - I've left to do some shopping for us and for a few others but mostly, I'm housebound now. I accept the misery of that but don't enjoy it.

I can relate to people having a whinge because that's what people do, they've had their freedoms curtailed and whether I agree with their viewpoint or not, that's their right and I won't tell them how to feel.

The biggest problem that i have with other posters is the ones who lay down the law, dictate and name-call. They're referred to as 'Stasi' but are actually worse than that, they do no good and I have no time for them. I wish they'd set up a 'hunt group' somewhere else, far away and froth to themselves where they harm nobody.

When I had long days alone with only a baby/ toddler for company, I'd often go out to somewhere like the library for a bit of sanity saving interaction with an adult. For some isolated, elderly people, Covid 19 probably doesn't seem as bad a fate as months of relentless loneliness. If popping out to the shops keeps them sane and alive from one day to the next, I won't begrudge them that. No one is indefinitely immortal anyway.

I'm saving up shopping until it is worthwhile, and I may as well get the full benefits in one go by exposing myself to the risk in the shops rather than needlessly popping out here and there, but I have the benefit of storage, being able to bulk buy, a car and an average sized family.

The lifestyle Stasi are getting very wearing, be it about shopping habits or making up fictious rules about exercising or any other aspect of not being locked down according to their own personal rulebook.

In my experience the shops have more bread than flour so making my own bread is unlikely!

I’m amazed how many people seem to think that only buying essential food should be allowed. And even then only once a fortnight because otherwise you are literally killing people and want their nan to die. Do they really believe that making people as miserable as possible will help maintain lockdown for the necessary period? Surely ensuring people are reasonably happy in their home is more likely to encourage them to stay put? What do they expect the result of making staying home as unpleasant and difficult as possible to be? Surely that’s going to make people less compliant pretty damn quickly?

@DCOkeford has it right. There is no government list of essential food. Same as there is no 1 shop a week rule.
One of our local butchers has had to go to telephone orders only because of the 'everyday same as normal ' shoppers. It's family run so the staff are all from one household but the shop is tiny so distance from customers was always going to be a challenge. They quickly realised that a lot of their customers were coming everyday to buy about 2 items instead of buying a few days worth.

I can't bring myself to label these people as selfish because it's their life

It isn't just their lives though anymore than it is just my life I need to worry about.
We all need to step up and take responsibility for each other.
Many older people are behaving responsibly just as many younger people are.
People of any age who aren't need to be encouraged to do so.

As a retail worker can i say no one (in my store) is judging what food anyone buys, we all have different needs but when its the same faces you see everyday buying total crap then yes we do wonder why they are putting themselves and us at risk because they ran out of hagen dazs or fancied a bottle of rose gin!

The thing is, we all think of essentials as being basic staples like break, milk, egg, cheese.

But no word of a lie, I've seen every single one of the items listed above being disputed as non-essentials.

You like milk in your tea? Not essential. Drink it black.

You like bread? Buy potatoes instead.

You want to eat eggs? How very dare you!

Cheese? Cheese? CHEESE? A luxury and you shouldn't eat it or you'll get fat.

I mean, seriously? Is that what it's come to?

I'm so excited to be out of isolation and go to the supermarket next week. I haven't been in ages as we didn't need anything before we developed symptoms. Have we got by? Yes we have I was able to get a click and collect that my mum picked up for us and the milkman delivers once a week. I am however looking forward to doing my own shopping and choosing my own substitutions as obviously things are out of stock. My mental health has really taken a hit with all of this. I'm even debating if it's ethical to walk around the area where the supermarket is for my daily exercise for a change of scenery.
I may well end up in more than one supermarket as it'll be down to my last tin of milk for DS and it is an own brand product so I might have to do a tour and there really isn't much I can do about that. All I can do is get up early and join the queue.

@SignOnTheWindow Thank you, that's a really lovely thing to say.

@LoveLongLife

I think there is some misunderstanding between posters. The government guidance absolutely doesn’t define ‘essential’ foods - that would be impossible.
I’m one of the posters who’s said that people don’t absolutely need the same ‘essentials’ they usually have. For example, I agree, I think of eggs as essential under normal circumstances. But I haven’t been able to get any delivered and I’m going without for the time being because I don’t want to catch the virus and give it to my vulnerable husband. I went to a shop yesterday - if they’d had eggs I’d have bought them but I wasn’t going to another shop to increase my risk.
I’m looking at the food I’ve got in the house and coming up with ways to use it so we continue to eat well. We’re not starving ourselves and we’re certainly not going without treats. But it’s a case of - run out of yogurt, have porridge for breakfast. Run out of bread, no toast for a couple of days. Run out of fresh fruit, have some dried fruit. Plan ahead so every shopping list is as comprehensive as possible and I don’t have to go out and come into contact with people because I forgot dishwasher salt or something. For me in a way it’s a challenge to become more creative with my planning and cooking.

Speaking for myself, when I’ve been angry at others’ behaviour it’s because they’re putting themselves and others (including shop staff who have no choice) at risk and it is awful to think that people will die because they absolutely had to carry on eating the way they do normally. People must do what’s right for their families, we have to work with what’s available in our areas, nobody should go without food, nobody should go without treats, but they should understand the way the virus spreads and that every time they go out shopping they risk catching & spreading it and the virus doesn’t care how ‘essential’ your shopping is. Look at the headlines today and think, do I really want to be ill (or my elderly relatives to be ill) in two weeks’ time when the hospitals are full?

to all MNers, these are hard times and of course it’s us, women, who are doing the majority of the shopping (in many cases for others too). I’m sorry if my posts have upset anyone.

What's essential to you may be different to what is essential to me. And you can bet the mps and Boris are not going without milk in their tea etc. I think these are strange and difficult times and a if bit of chocolate, ice cream etc etc can help lifts people's spirits a little then all the better

I had this in Waitrose the other day. Picked up several yellow labelled outdoor displays that although were wilting have sprung back to life. They are essential to my mental wellbeing and meant I spent several hours with the DC on an outdoor activity. I was shopping for essentials anyway and only spotted them because I was queuing outside in my 2m bubble.

I also bought a selection on Easter eggs as DS was upset he wouldn’t be going to his favourite egg hunt. 🤷🏻‍♀️

I’m sick of all the Stasi behaviour at the moment. There is literally a pandemic happening. Rather than judge why don’t we try talking to the person and making a connection. Cut the other humans some slack.

If you are starting your sentence with ‘to the person who’ then delete it and step away from the keyboard.

Excellent post BookShop.

I'm getting fed up with the posters who keep coming back and back about shopping. If you are in the bloody shop in the first place, you are risking catching/spreading the virus. It doesn't matter if you were there for lentils or chocolate. You.were.there.

Instead of engendering an 'in this together' mentality, it's very much, "I must try again to educate the stupid". No. No you don't, that's the government's job and I'm absolutely sick to the back teeth of seeing it on this chatboard.

It's up to the retailer consortium to determine (with Government, not mumsnet) how they will manage the risk of shoppers and they've done that. So what's your role? Follow the instructions yourself and get on with it.

All that's being done with this relentless hectoring is creating enormous bad feeling, you're not influencing anybody and working hard to make this crisis very much worse than it needs to be. There won't be tea and medals...

popcornpaws, you can say it but, did you really need to? I think it's a bit of a shitty attitude myself.

The Government have done an excellent job. Underfunding the NHS for years, failing to appropriately prepare for a pandemic and yet, the public are turning on each other and saying it'll be Colin at no 49s that's killing people for going to the shop to buy a paper every day.

@NiteFlights You make a good point, but you are also in a position to have a flexible diet. Many people do not.
I have a toddler f.ex. who eats very limited selection of foods. Believe me, we tried and keep on offering a wide slelection- she picks what she wants and if we don't have those items, it's very hard to feed her nutritious meals three times a day. While DP and me could do without fresh fruit (although I am pregnant and cant just live off vitamins in tablets)- she won't eat dry fruit. She eats yoghurts which she needs for calcium, but won't eat porrige. We can't replace her milk with plain water and serve her tea which to drink just because.
A friend has multiple food allergies and she needs to visit multiple shops multiple times a week to get the items she needs, as people who not not actually need them buy them 'just in case'. She needs to read the labels very carefully and can't simply substitute with alternatives as these could sometimes incapacitate her for hours or days.
It's easier said than done to 'do without' if you actually physically can, but many people can not- which was the point of my original post.

@NewYearNewJob123 I wholeheartedly agree- the government tries to turn our atention from their own failings to us, so we're more likely to blame Billy who bought a chocolate egg rather than Boris who failed to plan for this whole mess.

I'm also sick of people castigating others for making jokes (not CV related) or having fun. I've seen 'how can you say / do / think this? Especially at this time'. I mean, FFS, nowhere does the guidance (people calling it The Law) say we have to be miserable, eyes downcast and don hair shirts.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe

We are supposed to be in lockdown, as a retail worker i really don’t think my attitude of wondering why people are making daily trips to the supermarket is shitty!

Indeed. You don't, I do. Thinking it? Who cares? Voicing it? Shitty. It's also not your business. Do your job or call in sick or quit, you have options.

We're not going to agree; I'm ok with that.

I'm not going onto Facebook to castigate anyone.
That doesn't mean that I think that I'm ok with daily shoppers, I'm not, their actions are increasing the risk for everyone not just themselves.
It seems similar to drink driving to me.
I'm not thinking anyone should be rude or abusive but asking questions about why it is happening seems sensible.
The UK has a while to go yet with flattening the curve and I'd like all my vulnerable family members to make it through.

LyinWitchInTheWardrobe

You seem to think your opinion is more valid than mine? This is a discussion, i can voice my thoughts without being told i should phone in sick or quit my job??
Away and boil your heid!!

I say this on every thread like this.

I dont care what people buy, if gin and fags is what they need to get through, then buy them.

But the whole discussion about essentials is missing the point.

The point is and was always to go out as infrequently as possible. Whereever you can, change your habits, so you can go out less.

Fo some people that will mean more often than others, due to freezer space, finances etc. One of the extreme ironies of this is that many people who would happily buy a trolley load and go home can't actually get the food they need, or are restricted to 3 items and so can only buy enough for few days.

But the principle remains. Do whatever you can to leave the house as infrequently as possible. Buying plants/easter eggs/hairdye along with your weekly shop, fine. What is in your trolley when you go out doesn't matter. How often you go out does.

OP, only you can judge if you need to be out shopping. If you do, for whatever reason, then go, and don't feel guilty or take any notice of any comments.
But there are many, many people who are popping to the shops as a form of activity to get them out of the house, often daily.
They need to stop.