unions threatening to withdraw keyworkers

[nuttymomma]

Just spoke to someone I know who is a senior legal person for a large well known union.

Due to concerns around safety, lack of PPE etc, many keyworkers are saying they are not wanting to work and apparently the unions will encourage and support them to refuse to work for their own safety.

This would really fuck up the NHS, care homes, social care, education etc.

I don't know what to think!

Boris needs to make clear to key workers that it's a case of "attend work or go to jail"
I bet that would go down well (aside from being an empty threat not in his gift to carry out).
What a laugh.

'Attend work or go to jail'-you complete nutter!!
I'll probably lead with that when I tell my staff they've to change someone's faeces covered inco pad without gloves shall I??

I wonder if he and the "attend or go to jail" brigade clapped for the NHS and are using HCP's as the reason why everyone is an evil ,selfish wanker except them ofc.

Trump has Ford making face shields.

If you compare key workers to soldiers - just a different enemy we are fighting then yes, the government should be making PPE a priority - as in the comparison soldiers injured or families of those killed in action were able to take the government to court for not providing appropriate kit and protection in a war zone - this is no different and in addition to protecting the member of staff it also helps maintain the workforce at all - if the keyworkers are all sick then what - it is a no brainer and should be a reachable target to aim for.

No point creating the nightingale if all the staff are sick.

In fact why don't all those people put their money where their mouth is? I need loads of care staff-I did before this as well because it's the most undervalued and under paid sector-but now in particular I need staff.

If even a fraction of those who volunteered for the NHS fancied doing something that doesn't have quite the same 'glamour', but is just as worthy, I'm pretty sure your local care home will snap up all the help they can get. You could start in two weeks, if we fast track your DBS and give you a few days training... and of course we won't need to give you any PPE so....

better to have care without PPE than no care at all. And
the unions are going to play politics with people's lives, Boris needs to make clear to key workers that it's a case of "attend work or go to jail" you guys and OPs Ddad will be first offering yourselves without PPE to do these care tasks given you feel so strongly won't you..

Boris Johnson is not going to commit electoral suicide by jailing doctors and nurses. That’s a decision for a judge and I imagine they would accept that any keyworker refusing to work in these circumstances would have a defence to any criminal charge because of a lack of PPE.

Even a national emergency does not mean you can dismiss all key workers rights. If it is not provided then I imagine they will start to stay at home. They have families too.

Is this another one of those threads where somebody is clearly trying to gauge public opinion for a potentially unpopular change in policy/law?

An absence of other posts under this name does nothing to disabuse me of this suspicion.

To those asking, my dad is nearly 10 years retired. He used to be a teacher so if he wasn't retired, he'd probably be expected to work and he would as well because he says that's the job he's paid for and is expected to do and wanted to do. My MIL is a teacher and is still in the school every day looking after key workers children but have teachers ever had PPE?

Wow. Do people really do this?

Explains a lot.

Do is the feeling that there is a massive pile of PPE somewhere that isn't being distributed??

My understanding was that there is a shortage of PPE because demand was outstripping supply...

If this is the case then all the striking in the world will not help ,

however if there is lots of PPE not being distributed then that is an issue..

avery nobody said anything about striking.

Individual workers are looking at their established statutory right to withdraw to a place of safety when faced with a serious and imminent threat to their safety in the workplace (section 44 employment rights act 1996).

but have teachers ever had PPE?

Have teachers ever had to bed bath or administer IV drugs to someone with a potentially lethal disease?

I do defend teachers where needed, OP, but common sense dictates that hospital staff need it more. Besides, you can't teach in a face mask or a hazmat suit- you'd terrify the kids.

What do you do nutty given you are so willing to cast others into the (unprotected) fray?

Teachers don't get anywhere near as close to sick children as even the office staff do.

Which is how I ended up with the blasted virus. Checking temperatures of sick children and having to look after them until their parents turned up. I had gloves, alcohol handgel and the ability to clean surfaces, but the sheer numbers of sick children I dealt with meant I got it before the schools were closed.

Looking after a few kids during shutdown is completely different to that and, quite frankly, if that was all I'd ever had to do, I would not only not mind doing it too much, I wouldn't have caught it in the first place. Christ knows how many children I cross infected before I had symptoms. By your father's reckoning, it would be more important that I gave the kids with cancer, the one with a mother who is already on oxygen 24/7, the one whose grandmother lives with them, the one whose little brother has muscular dystrophy, the father with severe asthma or the grandmother with COPD an infection that will tear apart their family because 'it's what I'm paid to do'.

Well, sorry, 'Dad', it is not in my job description to knowingly harm and potentially kill sick children or their family members. It's not what I am paid to do, any more than it is to job of people whose purpose is to save life and prevent suffering to do so.

Add in that these are the people who are dealing with all extremely unwell people at very close range, coughing, choking, vomiting and then the workers in turn are potentially spreading the virus to many, many other extremely ill people who might not have had it beforehand. PPE protects the wearer and everybody around them.

To create a situation where people are effectively conscripted or forced to be responsible for as many deaths, if not more, than they save or at least make the dying process less undignified, painful and terrifying for would be a crime.

So 'Dad' needs to get his head out of his backside and actually think about what 'his' suggestion/opinion actually means.

If the unions are going to play politics with people's lives, Boris needs to make clear to key workers that it's a case of "attend work or go to jail".

WTAF. So they should risk their lives or go to prison?

Why should front line NHS workers risk their lives to save ours? What makes the rest of us more precious than them?

FFS, are we not seeing Doctors and Nurses as people anymore?

I'm one of those key workers with no ppe and an employer who don't give a f. There actually a lot more to it than ppe. Unions raging.
We actually have seniors management trying to get the union to out the staff who reported to the unions.

Op yabu. And you have no idea.

Sorry but your dad sounds utterly selfish and ignorant. Teaching is hardly to be compared with dealing with seriously unwell patients is it. He's retired in any case!

Of course no front line staff dealing with ill patients should be expected to do so without fully adequate PPE. None of these staff signed up to risk their health, their family members's health and even the lives of those close to them and potentially the lives and health of many other patients. Everyone should be petitioning for PPE for NHS, care staff and anyone who is front line and dealing with unwell patients. I think it should go further and that everyone working in contact with the public at present eg super market workers should be supplied with a basic mask and gloves at present.

Gove saod tonight that unions should be playing their part in bringing it to his attention if rules etc aren't followed and that's from a Tory.

Of course the unions care more about their members than everyone else. That's what they're there for.

Nobody should be forced to work without PPE. End of.

@StormyClouds

If the unions are going to play politics with people's lives, Boris needs to make clear to key workers that it's a case of "attend work or go to jail".

I appreciate it is difficult for BJ to tell a straight forward truth at the best of times but this is a blatant attempt at a gagging order on health workers. NOT unions playing politics. The risk to lives is our government.
www.independent.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-nhs-uk-
doctors-gagged-england-a9433171.html

There haven't been budget cuts in the NHS- we are spending £40 billion extra now than in 2010.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/mar/30/coronavirus-crisis-tories-cuts
David Rowland, director of the Centre for Health and the Public Interest has looked at a wider set of areas and found that, according to his calculations, the NHS England spend on the private sector is closer to £29 billion in 2018/19, or 26% of NHS England spending.

There's a huge difference between Working To Rule and striking.

I felt sorry for the till checkout worker at Morrison's today. Older lady, like myself, probably stuck working till she's 65/66 because of changes to pension rules, stressed to bits about people getting too close. No PPE at all, not even gloves or spray.

Some absolutely shocking statements on this thread. We’re not necessarily talking about frontline NHS key workers, but key workers like supermarket staff, food production, transportation, schools etc. Obviously the PPE as they come in go to the NHS, but other key workers aren’t getting any. Some companies are too distracted by the chance of making money from this situation and are pushing staff to work beyond safety guidelines. That’s why the unions are standing up for people. It’s not political at all!

And as for the make them work or send them to jail/better to give care without protection than no care brigade when talking about NHS workers - what bullshit! Why risk a person that could save hundreds of people to save one patient? If we’re being heartless, it’s better to let the patient die than risk the carer.. it’s the first thing you do in First Aid - check it’s safe for you to do it, if it’s not you don’t.😟