unions threatening to withdraw keyworkers

[nuttymomma]

Just spoke to someone I know who is a senior legal person for a large well known union.

Due to concerns around safety, lack of PPE etc, many keyworkers are saying they are not wanting to work and apparently the unions will encourage and support them to refuse to work for their own safety.

This would really fuck up the NHS, care homes, social care, education etc.

I don't know what to think!

Genuine legal figures shouldn't be sharing information they receive in the course of their business, with people liable to post the same on Mumsnet. This is totally inappropriate.

My DDad says it would lead to martial law‘

I was sceptical at first but, now it has the full weight of your dad's opinion behind it, I'm totally convinced.

Hearhooves - yes, but what do they mean by that, given that everyone is advised to stay at least 2m away from anyone else when thy go outside?! Clearly not same thing as normal, unscientific human beings would understand by it!!! If I can get ill because someone sneezed in my direction, that’s airborne transmission so far as I’m concerned, given that it’s air it travels through to get to me...

In my experience, (competent) “senior legal people” are very careful about what they put in writing, particularly around such sensitive topics and to someone who’s very likely to immediately post that information on a public forum.

I call irresponsible bullshit.

And if it lives in air for 3 hours, and window should be opened to get air to circulate, how is that not airborne? And if it’s a humid day, is the water in the air not part of the air that we breathe?

I think martial law is more likely to happen in America, given who is in charge.

Here, doubtful. If it gets to the point that NHS workers refuse to work, we are probably beyond fucked, so it won't really matter anymore.

I was sceptical at first but, now it has the full weight of your dad's opinion behind it, I'm totally convinced

@Walkaround

Here’s the report. It very clearly explains what ‘airborne’ means.

www.who.int/news-room/commentaries/detail/modes-of-transmission-of-virus-causing-covid-19-implications-for-ipc-precaution-recommendations

Why report the thread. My union have been quite open by it.

I can see their point. I’m a key worker apparently. I work for a company that isn’t health care, but I do a job that exposes me to hundreds of people from all over the world with a very limited (and inadequate) supply of gloves and sanitizer. No attempts at social distancing have been made. They’re also talking about laying people off and scaring people to death. While I understand the work is fairly important, I’m frequently wondering why I’m putting and my family myself in such a dangerous position.

Why report the thread.

Because there is a good chance it's lies - irresponsible bullshit as a PP put it.

Even if not it's irresponsible.

If your Union is in the public domain on this - good for them, not relevant to this.

I've already walked out of my job due to lack of PPE.

I'm not putting my health and life at risk for £18 an hour.

better to have care without PPE than no care at all

Something, perhaps instinct, tells me your dad isn't a frontline worker - so no danger of him being cannon fodder..

Bit surprised the thread's still here - maybe MN are hoping they can say "look look it was posted here first" if it turns out to be true.

Walkaround

There's a distinction between airborne and droplet infection.

I believe they've also said the distance needs only to be 1 metre rather than 2 metres.

There's also some question around the study that found the droplets in the air after 3 hours because of where and how the study was conducted.

The main ways of transmission still appear to be the same droplet - someone coughs or sneezes on you, contact - where you touch a contaminated surface and then introduce the infection into your eyes, nose or mouth.

www.who.int/news-room/commentaries/detail/modes-of-transmission-of-virus-causing-covid-19-implications-for-ipc-precaution-recommendations

Well the key workers have a right to be protected too.

It is true. I’m in the NEU, l can probably post a link to their advice.

Thanks, ItsGoingTibiaK.

How is this any different to "there are tanks on the streets and my friend in the government says we will be locking down and the military will be enforcing curfew as of tonight" several weeks ago?

As of yesterday, in the UK, at least four doctors and one nurse had died of coronavirus, caught from the patients they are treating. Healthcare workers are having to intubate and ventilate their colleagues.

Yes tbh I think it’s true too. I know a number of people who are PCS members so I’m aware of this statement, made in the last few hours.

www.pcs.org.uk/news/pcs-calls-for-wide-ranging-agreement-to-protect-workers

We need key workers to have as much PPE as is necessary for them to do their jobs safely and effectively -- because we depend on them, and we'll all be fucked if lots of them start getting sick and dying. (god forbid. )

And thanks, Hearhooves. Not exactly 100% reassuring, but I now understand the distinction between “airborne” and “droplet” transmission!

I think this would be correct advice from the unions in representing their members. It doesn't make it law though and employers will still ask staff to do what is needed. Staff who refuse would be striking without pay. Employers want their staff to be protected too but if the equipment is not available, what are they supposed to do?

He says it would put more lives at risk than are currently at risk, better to have care without PPE than no care at all.

From a bigger-picture perspective, sure. But if it's your life at risk I don't think anyone should force you to go against the instinct of self-preservation. I agree with the unions.