unions threatening to withdraw keyworkers

[nuttymomma]

Just spoke to someone I know who is a senior legal person for a large well known union.

Due to concerns around safety, lack of PPE etc, many keyworkers are saying they are not wanting to work and apparently the unions will encourage and support them to refuse to work for their own safety.

This would really fuck up the NHS, care homes, social care, education etc.

I don't know what to think!

It's not only NHS staff who are key workers and who don't have PPE (For the record it's a disgrace what is happening to NHS staff)

Utility companies are still expected to go into customers homes and working, without any PPE. Given this infection is spread by droplet/contact contamination it seems obvious that working inside a home and touching carpet, furniture and surfaces and then having to touch work tools etc is prime for transmitting this.

At no other time would it be acceptable for an employer to risk employees health like this.

Itd be no good if all the doctors and nurses got sick

I would imagine something like keyworkers are given the choice of doing their jobs or of being arrested by armed police and placed in a cell somewhere

It isn’t. It’s the military taking over all executive arms of government. Not the elected government using the military in ever-expanded roles.

I think it is more likely that the military would be given roles in guarding installations and maybe traffic management (to free up police for others of their functions) rather than being given powers of arrest

@Redlocks28 how dare you compare me and my DF to such a person? I have personal experience of discrimination so again, how dare you?

My DH is a keyworker (non NHS) with no PPE so I do very much sympathise and worry about him daily. I just never thought a refusal to work at all would be threatened.

So, here's a question - without proper PPE how many lives of front line medics will be lost as a direct result of the government's negligence?

The union is absolutely right to get legal opinion and right to ensure their members are protected as it is beneficial for everyone.

But even if the union is threatening to withdraw workers, my understanding is that the official process will still need to implemented such as a ballot. Unless there are emergency powers? I don't know

Part of the problem is that a lot of Non NHS/Social Care workers have unreasonable expectations of what PPE is needed. For example Amazon Warehouse workers are expecting face masks in the states. That goes against all advice including the WHO. Same for gloves etc. This is creating both unrealistic expectations and a shortage of PPE for those who do need it.

I would support them. They are dying in other countries. If they don't have PPE and get sick or die, they aren't there to provide care anyway. These people matter, their requests are reasonable and the government really dropped the ball on not trying to source more in Jan when it was clear what was coming

But key workers going into people's homes should have relevant PPE. In the case of utility companies I think that should be disposable overalls, over shoes and gloves at least. Probably not face masks if this definitely not air borne. As it is they are crawling around on floors and carpets, touching surfaces and then getting into their vans and contaminating them and then going off to the next customers house.

Again does the Health and Safety At work Act not apply any more?

Thread reported. Unless/until this becomes public and official it's just alarmist speculative muck-raking.

better to have care without PPE than no care at all.

For the people receiving the care. Not for the care workers.

I also think it's a scandal that people will be paid up to £2500 of government money to do * all in furlough when healthcare workers will be paid far less to work face to face with a disease that could be deadly to themselves or their loved ones. Find the money for health and care workers going into work (in form of enhanced payment for danger per hour worked - perhaps double time for every hour worked) - money has been found for almost everybody else.

But key workers going into people's homes should have relevant PPE

Someone I know that works for BT isn't being provided with anything. They're expected to ask if anyone in the house is sick and not enter if they are. Problem is. you're relying on people being honest and no one is going to admit to being ill when they want their phone/internet back up and running

It would be alarming if we had no keyworkers through illness and death too. Your Dad is being a selfish numpty. Also think reputation is not the most important thing on someone's mind when they're in a life or death situation

MrsSnitchnose

Exactly. And customers lie if they are desperate to get the job done

I don’t think it’s your dad’s place to give consent for a key worker’s life to be put at risk to save others.

@ Hearhoovesthinkzebras

Yes - my other half is boiler service engineer and therefore a key worker, supposed to be going to absolute emergencies but this is being interpreted very loosely by the company to keep customers happy.

In and out of houses, people claiming they have no symptoms but if they have no heating or hot water, what’s to stop them lying about this?

No standard PPE - and would be pretty impossible to do parts of the job all togged up in it anyway.

Where is this notion the disease is “not airborne” coming from? What do people mean by this? The virus has been shown to survive 3 hours in the air, hence advice to schools to open windows in the room you are isolating someone in if they are coughing and may have coronavirus - to stop it sitting around in stale air to be breathed in. It’s a respiratory illness, ffs. Of course it can be breathed in. Droplets that people sneeze and cough out are airborne... straight up your nose and into your lungs if you are unlucky.

Thread reported. Unless/until this becomes public and official it's just alarmist speculative muck-raking

Most of the discussions here are mostly speculative, so can't see the difference with this one?

If you weren't given permission to share it why are you repeating it on here?

There are already very subtle changes to the way caring is being done under such massive pressures.

Most of the discussions here are mostly speculative, so can't see the difference with this one?

It's in the wrong section - should be in CV.

It is claiming an unverifiable but significant (if true) piece of news.

At times like these when there is so much fake news and utter arse being circulated, threads like these are being (rightly in my view) deleted by MN as they are just scaremongering.

There can be no hope of verifying the OPs claim - it could be true, but it could be utter bollocks just posted for a bit of prurient shit-stiring.

If it's the latter, it's not very respectful of the people with a real need for proper PPE or their families.

If it's the former it's also not very respectful of the people with a real need for proper PPE or their families.

I am 100% genuine and the email came from a genuine legal figure in a well known union.

I said I could not share because it was a single email from an individual rather than a union email to every member (in which case I would have shared)

There is clearly a lot going on behind the scenes with the government and unions.

@Walkaround from the WHO. They have posted on their own media that it's not airborne but spread by droplets. Apparently there is a distinction.

There so much emotion around 'keyworkers'. Everyone assumes that 'keyworkers' means NHS (God love 'em), but there's a hell of a lot of us out there that are being termed 'keyworkers' without getting any of the kudos, appreciation or understanding that NHS frontline workers are getting.

Try being in a supermarket for eight hours a day, with people coming in and saying 'well, my DH's feeling a bit poorly so I've come in today...' and buying a bottle of pop and a scratchcard.

Walkaround

The WHO have just published their report that states it isn't air borne. I share your reservations and think that right now it's too early to draw absolute conclusions.