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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that, if it was a naked woman

103 replies

CarolHasAnotherUTI · 20/03/2020 09:26

Pictured in a shopping trolley, with men sharing it saying 'time to panic buy', it wouldn't be okay.

So why is it ok for women to do that with a picture of a naked man?

I'm not going to share the photo, I'm sure many of you will have seen it on social media, but hopefully even if you haven't there enough info here to make a call.

OP posts:
Original poster
CarolHasAnotherUTI · 20/03/2020 11:32

But you said you'd given us 'enough info here to make a call'!

Yes, but I wasn't looking for judgement on who I have as a friend on Facebook, and I didn't say that it was shared by anyone I know. Smile

OP posts:
AngelsSins · 20/03/2020 11:32

No outcry? What's feminism? Mild disagreement?

I’m talking about the general population - as a feminist myself, I’m fully aware of how hard feminists work to try and do something about these things, I’m also aware of how much they are dismissed or refused a voice.

CockCarousel · 20/03/2020 11:33

The image you describe is not OK. It doesn't, however, have the same connotations as "panic buying a woman" because men have bought and sold women for millennia. Men as a sex class are not subjugated by women.

AngelsSins · 20/03/2020 11:35

If a someone posted on here a picture of a naked women in a trolley, posters would be disgusted

On here, sure, but on a male centric forum, I doubt it. On Facebook, not so much either.

I can’t believe people think there would be huge outrage if it was a picture of a woman when we ALLOW THE REAL LIFE BUYING AND SELLING OF WOMEN. I can’t say this enough, get some perspective and think about what you’re saying.

Pentium85 · 20/03/2020 11:38

@AngelsSins

I politely disagree with you, and it’s ok for me to do so.

CockCarousel · 20/03/2020 11:42

I am sure society wouldn't be OK with men being raped and assaulted for entertainment on a vast scale. Women on the other hand...

KonTikki · 20/03/2020 11:43

Thanks for showing the photo.
Personally I think it's quite funny like the Coca Cola advert showing a topless Male window cleaner being objectified by women office workers.
Can't get worked up over stuff like this

AngelsSins · 20/03/2020 11:43

Pentium85 I’m pretty sure I’ve seen you on here defending porn before. I might be wrong of course, could be someone with a similar name, but if you have, can you explain why porn is ok, but this is offensive? Genuine question, not being goady.

By the way, if you think I’m wrong, I’m sure you could find a picture of a woman in a similar ad on the internet. You could try going to a male centric forum and posting it with the same OP, and see what reaction you get. I’d bet you’d be called an ugly feminazi within 5 posts!

Alsohuman · 20/03/2020 11:47

Does anyone else remember the firemen’s calendar from a few years ago? It was brilliant, I remember one of my gay male friends buying it and we drooled over it together.

Icantreachthepretzels · 20/03/2020 11:48

Yes it's wrong. Yes the women sharing it should know better. They're very hard of thinking and have now opened all women to the accusation of 'double standards' thus giving the continued objectification of women a smoke screen to hide behind. That's not OK.

But - like a pp - I would ask who created it? And who was behind the original photo - because it looks like a modelling shot rather than a candid one.

If men created an objectifying photo of a muscular, handsome man that then got adapted into a meme that is on them.

Because it's not women behind the objectifying photos of women, and the sexist/ misogynistic memes about them. That is something men are doing to them - and they know women object, we've been objecting for long enough and they still do it anyway.

But considering power, money and who runs industry - it is still men behind the creation of modelling shots like the one being discussed. (and I'd be willing to bet most meme creators are male as well) Perhaps they are hoping that if they can trick women into objectifying men just a little bit then men can carry on objectifying women in all the ways they have done for millennia and point out the 'hypocrisy' and the 'double standard' as a way to make it OK. Perhaps rich men just don't give a shit about other human beings - male or female.

But either way, the power remains with men - so if men don't like being objectified it's up to them to say something. Just like women have been doing for decades. But there's not much point in saying it to the women sharing the meme (I mean calling them out is fine - but it won't clear up the structural problem) - they need to tell the men who are actually in control and create this stuff.

If the picture of that man had never been taken then that meme could not exist. And which sex is responsible for the creation of (and consumes the most) nude and objectifying photos?

Sometimes if you spray shit everywhere you get some splashback. millennia of objectifying, oppressing, buying and selling women is the shit spray. This meme is the splashback.

I'm not going to get worked up over the splashback. But when it comes to cleaning things up, it too will have to go - no questions asked. It's still shit.

Pentium85 · 20/03/2020 11:48

@AngelsSins

Yes, you’re correct, I do defend porn.

I have not said this image personally offends me, I’m saying that a majority of posters on heat would change their opinion if it was the other way around.

AngelsSins · 20/03/2020 11:54

Yes, you’re correct, I do defend porn

I have not said this image personally offends me, I’m saying that a majority of posters on heat would change their opinion if it was the other way around

So presumably your ok with this image too then? No problems? And you know full well that more people support porn and than don’t and that society as a whole deems it acceptable, so why on earth are you suggesting society wouldn’t be ok with it if it was the other way around, when you know full well, people are perfectly happy seeing far more graphic shots of women?

I cannot understand someone defending porn and then suggesting that a soft porn photo of a woman would not be accepted by society! That’s some real double thinking. Have you forgotten page 3?

Royallyscrewed · 20/03/2020 11:55

There’s an incredibly similar picture doing the rounds of a braless woman in a thin shirt stood in the refrigerated aisle of a supermarket with the caption “where’s this, they have bread” or something like that. It’s sexist but obviously the shots are both professionally taken and we posed by models who presumably consented to risqué pictures being taken.

Personally I don’t blame anyone for making light of the current situation to keep their spirits up.

Pentium85 · 20/03/2020 11:57

@AngelsSins

You see very determined to argue.

I have simply said that from my experience of seeing the other posts on here, there would be uproar if it was the other way around.

I have at no point said it bothers me personally or that I personally have any issue with it.

AngelsSins · 20/03/2020 12:01

I’m not arguing I’m genuinely trying to understand the logic of someone knowing that society accepts porn, and personally defending porn, whilst also believing a very soft glamour shot of a woman in a trolly would create outrage. I don’t follow the logic.

Eckhart · 20/03/2020 12:03

I don't think 'the general population' is ok with images of naked women anymore. There's still a call for it. It's a niche market.

The outcry of feminism has made a massive difference in a relatively short time. We are not all the way there, but I think a lot of people now feel, and would be happy to voice, that it's not ok to have naked pictures of anybody in this sort of context. And that's a big step towards equality.

JessicaLangoustine · 20/03/2020 12:05

YY to Icebantreachthepretzels' post.

As a feminist, I centre women and girls in my feminism. Images like trolley bloke make me want to barf, but they do not make me angry. As pp have said, it is highly likely that male advertising execs are behind that image. Men in general do not suffer the objectification that women do and the pressure to be model-like in appearance.

Because men have never been commodities to be bought and sold by women

Have to disagree with this statement. The slave trade was an equal opportunities abuser. I agree that probably not a lot of women were plantation owners, but they certainly benefitted from the system. The same goes to the exploitation of working class men and women during the Industrial revolution (and one could say not much has changed today). However, even amongst the exploited classes, the women are always bottom of the hierarchy pile.

Dzundza · 20/03/2020 12:06

It looks like a photo that he consented to. I'm ok with consenting nudes.

Pentium85 · 20/03/2020 12:09

@AngelsSins

I have not for one second said porn does not create outrage. I appreciate and understand why some people would not accept porn. I also believe those same people that disagree with porn would disagree with a naked women in a trolley.
I don’t see what is hard to grasp here?

I like porn and support, to an extent, the production of porn. But I believe, here on MN, if it was a naked woman in the trolley posters would be outraged.

AngelsSins · 20/03/2020 12:18

I have not for one second said porn does not create outrage. I appreciate and understand why some people would not accept porn. I also believe those same people that disagree with porn would disagree with a naked women in a trolley
I don’t see what is hard to grasp here?

I like porn and support, to an extent, the production of porn. But I believe, here on MN, if it was a naked woman in the trolley posters would be outraged

Ok but if it’s the same people who dislike porn that would object to not only a woman in a trolly, but a man, then there’s no problem is there? And if the women gawping at this picture are the same ones who defend or like porn, then again, no issue is there?

I’m not sure why you keep talking about a picture of a woman being posted specifically here though, the OP was talking about comments on Facebook, not mumsnet, and plenty of people on Facebook would be perfectly fine with a picture of a woman in a trolly too.

Grumpos · 20/03/2020 12:19

do you remember not understand the difference?
Is it really the same to objectify women and men? Really?

Have men been routinely suppressed? Are men the primary victims of sexual assault, domestic violence and murder?

Do men walk home with their keys in their hands ready to defend themselves? Do men avoid running / walking / cycling in the dark?

There are a million reasons why it’s different.

Objectification if either is kinda tacky but IT IS NOT THE SAME. Because men don’t live their lives constantly affected by sexualisation. Woman have done and continue to do so. A pic of a half naked man is not loaded with all of the subtext.

It’s not difficult to understand why it’s different

Frenchw1fe · 20/03/2020 12:23

I’ve seen the pic. All I could think was I hope he doesn’t get his bits trapped.

bd67thSaysReinstateLangCleg · 20/03/2020 12:30

When global corporations stop using women's bodies to sell stuff on a massive scale, I'll care about an individual making a meme in poor taste.

AliceInADifferentWorld · 20/03/2020 12:30

Ive seen it, I don't particularly like it, not because it's objectifying men, let's face it, men have been doing it to women for years. I don't like it because I don't think it's funny. Not my sense of humour.

ginandbearit · 20/03/2020 12:38

There were a couple of long running threads here a few months ago under the general heading of "phwoar hot stuff!" with photos of men in varying degrees of undress and with lots n lots of appreciative comments .Made me laff at the thought of what the equivalent thread with underdressed women would have created if it had been posted over from Army Rumour Service...