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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Looking after your own children IS work

999 replies

Bumpitybumper · 12/03/2020 09:20

Oxford Dictionary definition of "work":
activity involving mental or physical effort done in order to achieve a purpose or result

AIBU to suggest that the people that suggest that looking after one's own children isn't work are wrong and in some cases are actively trying to devalue and undermine the people (usually women) that do the majority of childcare?

Would be really interested to understand how anyone can read this definition and argue that looking after children isn't work.

OP posts:
NoIDontWatchLoveIsland · 12/03/2020 12:44

My point is that plenty of parents actually choose not to "parent" and opt out of all the activities associated with raising and looking after children. Essentially burdening the other parent with all the responsibilities and duties.

I can't find a better way to articulate this... but i think looking after my own children is more like a hobby, perhaps a hobby like long distance running. Many people love this hobby, it makes them feel good, it gives them a sense of fulfilment and achievement. Other people hate it and would never choose to spend their time doing it.

Shinycat · 12/03/2020 12:45

@TryingToBeBold

Watched a programme the other day whereby a woman had 4 children. Aged 7-14.
Referred to her self as a full time SAHM?
Why?
The kids are almost at school more time than they're not during the day (waking hours.. )
Surely you're not longer a full time.. mum. When the kids spend more time at school?

Hmm

@JustInCaseCakeHappens

Because that's what she is, why do you think?! Confused

This! Just because her kids are aged 7 to 14, she is still a mother FFS! And she has got FOUR kids, and yet the poster (tryingtobebold) thinks she has no right to be a stay-at-home-mum because all 4 kids are at school! I've heard it all now FFS! Confused

I think it's ridiculous - and bloody rude - to say someone has no right to call themselves a stay-at-home-mum because her kids are at school now. Hmm

That poster making those comments sounds quite resentful and jealous.

curlsnotfrizz · 12/03/2020 12:47

yawn. It's called p a r e n t i n g !!!

NoIDontWatchLoveIsland · 12/03/2020 12:48

yet the poster (tryingtobebold) thinks she has no right to be a stay-at-home-mum because all 4 kids are at school! I've heard it all now FFS!

No one said she has no right to be a SAHM.

It's absurd to refer to yourself as a "full time" SAHM when your children are all at school for 6 hours of the day. You are a part time SAHM and part time unemployed or if you prefer it, the old-fashioned term house wife could be applied.

Bumpitybumper · 12/03/2020 12:49

@NoIDontWatchLoveIsland
I don't find looking after my own children to be an "effort"
Lucky you!

Both my DH and I find looking after our young children a massive effort. That doesn't mean that it's not worthwhile, enjoyable at times or that it's something we would opt out of. We love our children dearly but it isn't easy meeting all of their needs and some of their wants. Going places and doing things we personally would rather not because we know it's good for them and their development.

Saying you find looking after your children is an effort doesn't mean that you love your children less or are any worse of a parent.

OP posts:
itsallthedramaMickiloveit · 12/03/2020 12:51

Who are you benefitting by being a SAHM?

Yourself and your family.

Nobody else.

That's the difference.

NoIDontWatchLoveIsland · 12/03/2020 12:51

Either way there are many things which are an effort, which does not make them "work".

Sex can involve physical effort. Any sport can. Lots of pastimes involve mental effort. This does not make them "work".

You would think I was taking the actual piss if i started describing my golf habit as "work".

Sceptre86 · 12/03/2020 12:51

Being at home with the kids can be hard and yes it is work of a different kind but it is not a job or career. To compare the two is unreasonable. I value the unpaid mother work just as much as anyone else I just have to do it alongside my actual job too. I have a great dh who is my equal in all things including parenting. That is my reality and I just get on with it.

Bumpitybumper · 12/03/2020 12:52

@MarginalGain
We all agree that raising children is work
Have you seen the results of the poll? There is no such consensus.

OP posts:
NoIDontWatchLoveIsland · 12/03/2020 12:54

*Who are you benefitting by being a SAHM?

Yourself and your family. *

This kind of nails it. No one else financially values your contribution in looking after your own children. Its a job when other people value what you are doing enough to pay you to do it. Thus amateur drama actors are not doing a job, because people won't pay enough to see their performances to do more than cover costs.

Shinycat · 12/03/2020 12:54

@NoIDontWatchLoveIsland

It's absurd to refer to yourself as a "full time" SAHM when your children are all at school for 6 hours of the day. You are a part time SAHM and part time unemployed or if you prefer it, the old-fashioned term house wife could be applied.

What a load of rot. If you have school age kids and you don't have paid employment, or COURSE you're a stay-at-home-mum.

ColdTattyWaitingForSummer · 12/03/2020 12:55

I think it’s the difference between work and employment isn’t it?
I mean I work hard to look after my children and home, despite having a disability that makes it harder. That disability makes it virtually impossible to work - in an employed role - outside the home. But what I’m doing still has value.

NoIDontWatchLoveIsland · 12/03/2020 12:55

OP why does it matter unless you have some need to justify your existence as a SAHP?

It doesn't need to be justified if you and your partner agree on it & are making it work for you financially.

SuburbanFraggle · 12/03/2020 12:55

Some parents: help children practice instruments, do homework, reading, plan healthy meals, go on educational outings to museums, etc.

Some people smoke in front of their children, feed them processed junk for EVERY meal with no fruit or veg in the house, they look after them drunk, leave them home alone and bring strange men/women home on a regular basis. They lock them in cars while they go to the casino.

Both these people are given the description "parent" . One is doing work, the other isn't.

If it weren't work why don't nannies just volunteer for free?

Whenever works is designated as 'women's work' it is undervalued.

An example is a 'sectetary'. It used to be an honoured position. Like a businessman's right hand man. When typewriters became common, and women's smaller fingers were seen as better for typewriters the job of secretaries because a 'woman's job'. It lost status and prestige. The salaries went down and it became something like a 'work maid/wife'.

Women's work is always looked down on and considered 'not work'.

When your mum cleans the house is that 'not work?' why then does the cleaner want paying for doing the same thing?

Most households could not afford: a cleaner who does two hours daily, PLUS an on call 'night nanny' who will wake up if your child is crying, PLUS a tutor to do a daily hour of homework and reading, PLUS an Uber with a chaperone to take the child to activities PLUS a healthcare assistant to clean up vomit, PLUS a nanny to do breakfast, pick up from childminder, bath, PLUS plan holidays, birthday parties, outings, PLUS cooking daily and 48 hour weekend care. Only the rich an afford to pay someone to do all those things.

And its a silly argument to say that because it is your choice it is not work. Imagine a person who likes animals and becomes a vets assistant, so not years of training, the general assistant. Should they not get paid because "they chose to do it and they like animals"?

The truth is that "women's work" is work that is unpaid. Full stop.

Bumpitybumper · 12/03/2020 12:56

@itsallthedramaMickiloveit
*Who are you benefitting by being a SAHM?

Yourself and your family.

Nobody else.

That's the difference*
There are lot of paid roles that have no tangible benefit for wider society and some arguably actively detriment society. Are those people not undertaking work either because they're obviously just doing it for the money which ultimately will only benefit them and their families?

OP posts:
NoIDontWatchLoveIsland · 12/03/2020 12:56

If you have school age kids and you don't have paid employment, or COURSE you're a stay-at-home-mum.

Of course you are but calling it fucking full time is a piss take.

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 12/03/2020 12:56

Bumpitybumper

Ok add to the list taking kids to park to make home less fractious -

As for those self employed it’s a very precarious position for many and will be so in the coming months

Working parents (apart from very few) also do the school run, cooking, housework, homework support, etc

This is the issue is the idea that we working parents are not doing every thing that needs to be done we absolutely are many of us and then the extras at the weekend

Shinycat · 12/03/2020 12:56

@NoIDontWatchLoveIsland

So kids are at school 6 hours a day. So what?

They are on holiday for a third of the bloody year. So are you just a stay-at-home-mum for all THOSE weeks, but NOT one when they are at school for SIX HOURS A DAY?!

Honestly, the rot I read on here sometimes just knocks me sideways.

Shinycat · 12/03/2020 12:57

@NoIDontWatchLoveIsland

Why are you so angry?

Are you bitter because you have to go out to work?

NoIDontWatchLoveIsland · 12/03/2020 12:58

There are lot of paid roles that have no tangible benefit for wider society

No there aren't. People pay you for it if they want what you are providing or it makes money. Money keeps the economy going, provides jobs etc.

Give me a single example of a legal paid role which gives no tangible benefit to wider society?

I don't class illegal criminal activity as work either even if it earns money.

Shinycat · 12/03/2020 12:58

You have school age kids and do not go out to paid employment... you are a full time stay at home mum. FACT.

PeterPanGoesWrong · 12/03/2020 12:59

It’s hard work, but it’s not a ‘proper’ job, as in a paid employment. Nobody thinks raising a family and running a house is an easy job, but it’s not a job job, it’s being a housewife and mother.
If you think being a mum is work, who do you consider to be your employee?

NoIDontWatchLoveIsland · 12/03/2020 12:59

Shinycat

I don't right now, I'm on maternity leave. DH and I earn more than enough that i don't need to work. I choose to work 4 days a week for various reasons. I'm very very happy :)

NoIDontWatchLoveIsland · 12/03/2020 13:01

I also don't think there's anything wrong with not working when your children are at school if your family can afford that without recourse to any benefits. I just don't think it needs to be described in some way that tries to pretend it's anything than what it is...not working.

AmICrazyorWhat2 · 12/03/2020 13:02

However, this whole discussion misses the point entirely. While not technically ‘work’, caring for small children and elderly relatives is of great importance to our society and is not valued properly.

Totally agree, @LaurieMarlow. I don't care whether it's considered "work" or not, people who provide unpaid care for others are incredibly valuable to society - sometimes it's for children they chose to have who'll later contribute to society; other times, it's saving the state huge amounts of money by caring for the sick/elderly. No one should dismiss or denigrate this. Angry

I also know volunteers who "work" incredibly hard on projects that benefit their neighbours, e.g., weeding and landscaping public green spaces so everyone can enjoy them (because the council can't/won't spend the money). Perhaps they should sit on their backsides and not bother, because they're not getting paid for it?