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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Looking after your own children IS work

999 replies

Bumpitybumper · 12/03/2020 09:20

Oxford Dictionary definition of "work":
activity involving mental or physical effort done in order to achieve a purpose or result

AIBU to suggest that the people that suggest that looking after one's own children isn't work are wrong and in some cases are actively trying to devalue and undermine the people (usually women) that do the majority of childcare?

Would be really interested to understand how anyone can read this definition and argue that looking after children isn't work.

OP posts:
Original poster
Bumpitybumper · 12/03/2020 14:26

@LaurieMarlow @Dooofle @itsallthedramaMickiloveit
Your taxation argument doesn't really stack up for a profession like law where studies have suggested that they have a negative societal impact of 0.5 (where wider society loses half a dollar of spending power for every dollar that profession makes).

Some lower earners also cost the state money as most of their earnings are untaxed and they are able to claim additional benefits as a result of them being in paid employment.

I'm not pointing this out because I have an axe to grind with lawyers or low earners. I'm just highlighting how paid employment is not always morally, socially or economically superior.

OP posts:
The80sweregreat · 12/03/2020 14:26

It's a thread that appears once a month!
You cannot win this argument: some people stay at home as they can't justify sending their children out to child minders or don't have family pitching in to help. Others have no choice to do this and some just like being at home.
Whatever you do your judged.

Original poster
Bumpitybumper · 12/03/2020 14:26

@stophuggingme
Thanks Smile

OP posts:
BeetrootRocks · 12/03/2020 14:27

Dictionary definition is fine

Why so many people have decided to redefine the word to only include paid work is odd to me.

itsallthedramaMickiloveit · 12/03/2020 14:27

@Bumpitybumper so you don't think we need people educated in law to defend citizens and to prosecute criminals.

They're needed more than a SAHM.

Oooom · 12/03/2020 14:28

All sorts of things are work because people would rather not be doing it - cooking, cleaning, looking after kids full-time, whatever.

This difference is, this work is not employment.

I’ve just shampooed the carpets while the cleaning lady did other things. We were both “working.” But she was being paid for it. So her work was employment, mine was for myself / benefit of the family. Same tasks, different purposes.

All my kids are at school now and I’ve been SAH for 15 years. I don’t consider myself to be “working” anymore, no. I haven’t for a long time., But when they were little, I would describe it as hard work of the non-employed variety. Will that do?

There is work is the sense of the verb - ie “I am working on the laundry” or in the sense of the noun, ie “The laundrette is my place of work.”

People make such a hoo haa about this on MN, but the differences are obvious and why does it even matter?

BeetrootRocks · 12/03/2020 14:28

'There's nothing wrong with being a SAHP. But I really don't agree that it's valuable to society.'

Huh?

Of course caring for children- feeding them, clothing them, making sure they get to school etc is valuable for society!

If no one bothered then it would be very bad indeed.

Mumofone1902 · 12/03/2020 14:29

I look after my son all day, I do the washing/ cleaning/ shopping as I'm at home all day.

In the evenings I go to 'work' at my job.

I don't get paid to take care of my son or house and do it anyway. If my work told me they were stopping paying me I wouldn't go in.

YANBU to say that it's hard to be a SAHP becuase it's mentally draining and tiring BUT if you are happy to not get paid and carry on doing something it's not work.

Dividingthementalload · 12/03/2020 14:29

Pp just hit the nail on the head. Perhaps it we all started owning our decisions, as well as respecting different ones made by others, parents wouldn’t feel the need to categorise their parenting as work. It’s others’ judgement which makes women like the OP feel the need for a worthier label.

Rosebel · 12/03/2020 14:30

Not more than a SAHM. You can't compare the two.

Dooofle · 12/03/2020 14:32

Of course caring for children- feeding them, clothing them, making sure they get to school etc is valuable for society!

Huh?

Kids in our house still manage to be fed, clothed and make it to school with both parents working.

TheresGonnaBeARain · 12/03/2020 14:33

@dooofle

Children need looking after if they are to become healthy, functioning, contributing members of society. Whether by nursery workers, teachers or parents, up to a certain age, someone’s doing it.

If you’re arguing that rearing children who will populate the future workforce is an activity that provides value to society (I am), the coherent position is that if some of those children become SAHPs, that continues to be valuable.

Of course, you need people pursuing a range of things for society to function. You cannot have 100% of the population being binmen/women, likewise you cannot have 100% if the population being doctors or 100% providing childcare.

Original poster
Bumpitybumper · 12/03/2020 14:33

@itsallthedramaMickiloveit
You do realise that lawyers aren't all about protecting the innocent and prosecuting the bad guys Hmm I didn't say we didn't need lawyers anyway. I was pointing out that arguments about "work" having to have a wider economic benefit were flawed.

They're needed more than a SAHM
Thanks for clearing that up.

OP posts:
Dooofle · 12/03/2020 14:33

Why should society value the SAHM mum more than or even equally to the mum who does all of the above and goes out to work, contributing taxes etc...

Again, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with being a SAHP. I'd love to be one. But it's not a benefit to society. Plenty of working parents still manage to raise children.

Dooofle · 12/03/2020 14:35

If you’re arguing that rearing children who will populate the future workforce is an activity that provides value to society (I am)

Absolutely true. What I'm saying is you don't need to be a SAHM to raise children who will populate the workforce. Therefore why should society be grateful for it?

user1469190646 · 12/03/2020 14:35

No it isn't work.

It's a chore that you chose to take on for 20 years and yet all of you moan about it and point score with their DP over who does more

LaurieMarlow · 12/03/2020 14:36

I was pointing out that arguments about "work" having to have a wider economic benefit were flawed.

The legal profession contributes millions in tax receipts to the exchequer every year. I'm not quite sure how you think this is 'cancelled out' somehow. Please explain.

Original poster
Bumpitybumper · 12/03/2020 14:37

@Dooofle
What if the working mum doesn't earn enough to pay tax or do a job that benefits wider society? Is she the worst of all or just as bad as SAHPs? What's the bloody obsession with paying tax. FWIW I'm a SAHM and pay shit load of tax. Work that one out Wink

OP posts:
itsallthedramaMickiloveit · 12/03/2020 14:39

@Bumpitybumper Yes I do actually. My friend works in the law department of HSBC. A very valuable role.

Again. Does your husband pay into your pension?

Dooofle · 12/03/2020 14:40

I've never suggested being a SAHP is bad.

I've suggested there's no reason for me to be grateful for it.

Timetospare · 12/03/2020 14:40

Just wondering,
If the schools and nurseries do close due to Coronavirus, will all those SAHP who are ‘ not a benefit to society’ suddenly become every working parents best friend?

JustInCaseCakeHappens · 12/03/2020 14:41

There's nothing wrong with being a SAHP. But I really don't agree that it's valuable to society.

well, personally, it's SAH parents who actually allow me to go to work.
It's SAH parents who volunteer and allow my kids to do a lot of after-school activities.
it's also the fact that there are SAH parents in my neighbourhood that make a difference to my neighbourhood.

It would be highly hypocritical of me to ignore that.

And if there was no SAH parent around me, I very likely would have to rethink my own working circumstances. I am not the only one.

It benefits us all in general that we don't ALL chose to stay home or work, that's the point. No one expect you to be grateful if I chose to go to work or I chose to stay home. It doesn't have to be one or the other (which was insults above).

BeetrootRocks · 12/03/2020 14:41

'Kids in our house still manage to be fed, clothed and make it to school with both parents working'

A baby can't dress or feed itself! Someone has to look after children. If all children were not fed, clothed etc of course it would not be good for society.

The idea that as a society, taking care of children has no value is completely bonkers.

LaurieMarlow · 12/03/2020 14:42

What's the bloody obsession with paying tax.

Is that a serious question? You know what tax is for, right?

BeetrootRocks · 12/03/2020 14:43

'Of course caring for children- feeding them, clothing them, making sure they get to school etc is valuable for society!

Huh?'

Why do you think there's no value of the nation's children being cared for?

Why do we bother with laws about neglect etc.

Ridiculous position to take.