To feel vindicated by the D of H report, which confirms midwives are withholding epidurals?

[RevolutionofourTime]

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2020/mar/03/women-in-labour-being-refused-epidurals-official-inquiry-finds

I was denied pain relief during my first labour for no reason whatsoever. When I complained to the head of midwifery, she encouraged me to try a home birth next time. 🤨 I have also witnessed other women in maternity ward being denied pain relief.

Despite this, I have seen it argued here time and again that midwives are not acting as gatekeepers or withholding proper pain relief in labour.

This report confirms what many of us know.

I will be curious to see if this will lead to changes- more specifically, to adherence to the Nice guidelines that it’s never too early and never too late for an epidural in labour.

and it is horrifying the amount of stories on here of women who have felt that their feelings were disregarded and disrespected
How dismissive. Tell me when you ask for anaesthetic to have dental treatment is it you “feelings” that are being disregarded or your request? Do you feel “disrespected” or powerless if someone just drills without allowing you pain relief? This is nonsense and minimising. Though obviously doesn’t happen much at the dentist being as the patients can get up and walk away.

There have been quite a lot of posts on here comparing giving birth to having surgery. They're not the same thing - giving birth is not a medical procedure.

I think one problem is it's been so over dramatised on TV etc that people tend to think of it like a medical procedure and therefore expect they can't possibly do it without pain relief.

Which is sad because women are a lot stronger and more capable than we give ourselves credit for - our bodies were literally designed to give birth way before pain relief even existed.

I forgot to say in earlier posts, thank you for starting the thread, OP. Really appreciate your posts, and everyone else's as I realise now that the agenda wasn't against me personally, it is something which runs much deeper, institutional. It's a disgrace.

Enchiladas our bodies have evolved since then. Posture is different, hips narrower etc.

Reasons given for 'delay' giving me pain relief in labour :

1. only one anesthetist on shift so stretched resources.
2. after the epidural, constant monitoring is required. Not enough midwives to do this. The NHS is so underfunded it just cannot cope with demand.

For those that were told they couldn't have an epidural were you in a midwife led unit or labour ward?

I was told very early in that if your in an MLU you couldn't have an epidural. If you changed your mind then you'd have to be transferred to labour ward. That causes major delay and could lead to you not being able to have one

I was consultant led and on labour ward and had an early epidural with no issues.

@Sagradafamiliar that's where our beliefs differ

Labour ward. When they finally admitted me to it, anyway. I gave birth to one baby outside on the floor as they kept sending me away.

@enchiladas
That’s fine to have different beliefs. You do your thing. Other women should be able to do theirs.
I knew I “could” do it without an epidural. Of course I could. I just didn’t fucking want to!!

That's ok @Enchiladas
I also disagree with your insinuation that it's weak to want an epidural.

@PrayingandHoping one in each. In the MLU I wasn’t told I would have to be transferred for epidural until I was in established labour.

Which is sad because women are a lot stronger and more capable than we give ourselves credit for - our bodies were literally designed to give birth way before pain relief even existed. don’t be ridiculous, have a good long think about WHY infant mortality rates are better now, or WHY more women survive birth, or WHY there are less women left damaged to the point of incontinence. “Natural” is often brutal, and pain and humiliation are NOT positive.

There have been quite a lot of posts on here comparing giving birth to having surgery. They're not the same thing - giving birth is not a medical procedure.

Giving birth is obviously a natural occurrence which in many cases requires medical intervention.
A Caesarean section is quite obviously surgery.
Thanks to all sorts of medical intervention, child/mother mortality rates are low.

@Enchiladas our bodies were literally designed to give birth way before pain relief even existed

So you believe in intelligent design then?

Our bodies were not “designed”.

Which is sad because women are a lot stronger and more capable than we give ourselves credit for - our bodies were literally designed to give birth way before pain relief even existed.

So the improvement in maternal mortality rates thanks to medical intervention is just what, a coincidence?

If we are so well designed for giving birth, why does it kill so many women when medical intervention is not available?

Our teeth are designed to last a few decades at most. We also used to rip teeth out without anaesthetic but we wouldn’t do that now.

@PrayingandHoping, I was refused admission in the labour ward as they were full, and forced to go to the MLU (one floor up in the same hospital). I made it clear that I considered this to be temporary and that I wanted to be transferred back to the labour ward asap. Once in MLU, no pain relief was available. They didn’t allow me to go back to labour ward, kept saying there was no delivery room available. But also would not contemplate transferring me to another hospital.

@Sagradafamiliar 💐. I’m glad if I could help provide some cathartic relief.

I think a lot of what is wrong is that women are being ignored. They aren't actually given a choice they are just fobbed off because I honestly believe that some midwives simply can't be arsed and they want an easy shift. I had my baby on a bank holiday Monday. The ward was quiet not a lot going on. I remember begging for about the 15th time for the epidural and nothing was getting done. Like I said earlier I was induced and I was literally having waves of agony with no break in between. These so called "healthcare professionals" watch a woman screaming and crying in pain and keep saying it's too late etc. These people do not deserve to be in their role. I wouldn't treat my worst enemy the way I was treated. I know there will be some brilliant midwives. I guess I was bloody unlucky

@5zeds I’m not being dismissive - if you feel that your care was not adequate you should make a complaint, the only way anything changes is by showing a fault in the system and addressing it but if no one does that practise won’t change. But comparing dental surgery - something that is planned so they will definitely have analgesia to hand as they know what they are about to do and birth is completely different. Like A&E you never know what is coming through the doors of a labour ward and although we have an anaesthetist on call for labour ward 24/7 they cannot physically be in with every woman at the same time - we have to prioritise with risk to life always coming first. People don’t usually get dental surgery as soon as they’re in pain - they have to wait for slots in surgery lists or appointments to become available as resources allow.

Enchiladas :our bodies were literally designed to give birth way before pain relief even existed

You know very little about the history of childbirth clearly.

If you think that the majority of women managed to deliver thriving little babies before all the awful medical intervention took over, think again.

Have a look at the facts.

I asked for an epidural, but was told I could only have one once I reached 7cm. They knew I was coming because it was an induction. I felt I had no choice but to have an induction because my baby was 40+10. They made this big deal about how if I didn't get induced I would have to go in for daily checks and my baby was at a huge risk of being born stillborn.

I went from no pain, to huge amounts of pain. My body didn't have a chance to get use to the pain. It felt like my body was being ripped in half. My midwife said I couldn't have an epidural until I was 7cm. Once I finally got to 7cm, the baby and I were in so much distress I had to have an EMCS anyway.

@flowerfairy, the problem is that many of us have been making complaints, for years in fact, and yet the DOH report says this is still happening. Things are not improving.

I didn’t feel like my complaint was taken seriously at all, and I’m sure there were no lessons learnt by the midwifery unit at my hospital.

@RevolutionofourTime that is why u didn't get your epidural... They cannot do them on MLU.

Your complaint should definitely focus on the no space on LW as that is where the issue was

I had an induction and was sat in a room on the valour ward 14 hours waiting for a midwife to be available for them to be able to start me. They had the room but no midwife. In the end an hour before shift change they had a spare so started me off on the drip purely so that I couldn't be bumped again by the next shift as they were so stretched.

@PrayingandHoping, I know that and I knew it at the time. That’s why I didn’t want to go to the MLU. I was forced to. And once there, they didn’t let me go back to the labour ward when I said (repeatedly!) I needed pain relief.

Come to think of it, it’s a bit of a hostage situation.

I went in at 2cms dilated and wouldn't engage with anyone until I'd had an epidural. Which yes, makes me sound like a princess, but I was so afraid of being refused one later on.
They tutted about it because I wasn't in 'great pain' but i just said i didn't want to have any pain and that was my choice.
You have to be really firm. I've heard people say that their midwives said it was too late at 6cms.

The report can only refer to information that was documented. I was one of two women in my post-natal ward who had our notes 'lost' after what should have been classed, recorded and investigated as near miss events - in the national report summarising near misses for that year there was a return of 0 for where I delivered. So I am willing to bet that the actual recorded figures on epidural are potentially not the full story due to poor record keeping.