To feel vindicated by the D of H report, which confirms midwives are withholding epidurals?

[RevolutionofourTime]

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2020/mar/03/women-in-labour-being-refused-epidurals-official-inquiry-finds

I was denied pain relief during my first labour for no reason whatsoever. When I complained to the head of midwifery, she encouraged me to try a home birth next time. 🤨 I have also witnessed other women in maternity ward being denied pain relief.

Despite this, I have seen it argued here time and again that midwives are not acting as gatekeepers or withholding proper pain relief in labour.

This report confirms what many of us know.

I will be curious to see if this will lead to changes- more specifically, to adherence to the Nice guidelines that it’s never too early and never too late for an epidural in labour.

I had an epi withheld with my DS2. They didn’t read my notes which said I should have had one straightaway as it was a VBAC birth and it was a high risk pregnancy because of that and Gestational Diabetes. It all turned out right in the end, but it still pisses me off.

@user1482956724 Piss off.

'Instantly forgotten'... bwahahaha. What fucking bullshit is that. User, you're fucking bonkers. Nice for you to have got amnesia, I remember every second.

Never pushing another human being out of my vagina again. Fuck that shit.

The disadvantages of epidurals are not really the point- it is not up to midwives to tell white lies as to why you can’t have them. Women should be able to make informed choices about their pain relief.
Lack of anaesthetic dr is one thing but is often time specific- if a patient wants one and a dr is available then a patient can make an informed choice.
The whole no pain relief/ natural birth/ didn’t she do well, comments doesn’t help anyone.

Not surprised, Revolution. Sorry you had a tough time. My labour was 19 years ago and it seems little has changed. The midwife refused an epidural and said I was making a fuss for nothing. (Turned out i was making a fuss for good reason and the baby ended up brain damaged.) The majority were amazing people, overworked and undertrained but some were just plain nasty.

@user1482956724 it is relevant, because you appear to be relating to the fact that women have always done it, and that our bodies are designed to, yes they are, but it doesn't mean it's all sunshine and rainbows. Good for you that you instantly forgot about the pain and had no after effects, many women dont. There are lots of ways that the NHS is wasteful, allowing women to choose whether they feel they require or want pain relief shouldn't be something that's just accepted when there are other ways to save money. Why are we always expected to roll over and accept things for the greater good or just because?

I am really crap at being pregnant. DD was my third pregnancy in seven months, I had six hospitalisations before 13 weeks, hyperemesis and vomiting 30 times a day from four weeks until labour and had to take a concoction of drugs to stay pregnant. If I had been denied my epidural that didn't actually work properly but that is another story I would have thrown myself from the third floor of the John Radcliffe. I was so grateful for my midwife who asked me what I needed and then kept me updated. From the second I was pregnant hospital staff dismissed me and left me to suffer far longer than I needed to and I do not know what I have done if this had continued into my labour. I'm so grateful for my midwife Vicky and very angry for the women here who were mocked and ignored.

I was denied any form of pain relief with DS2 as they said I couldn't until 4cm dialated - not even gas and air. This was despite excrutiating back to back long lasting contractions and knowing with DS1 that 2nd stage labour was a little over half an hour, although pushing for much longer as he was in "superman" position. I'd had an almost 4th degree tear with DS1 and was getting worked up it would happen again. They tried to send me home after 2 hours and no further then 3cm but I couldn't walk more than 2 steps without a contraction. Told them I wasn't going anywhere or the baby would be born in the car. Lo and behold, 17 mins later I was 9cm and being rushed to delivery and only then was I allowed gas and air for all of 5 minutes until he was born

I was also refused an epidural the whole of my 12 hour labour, they kept telling me to wait and then buggering off for hours at a time. I was clearly in established labour as I was induced and examined during this time, got to about 5cm on one of the examinations and they still told me to just wait. Then the last time I asked they told me sorry it’s too late. I really feel like they just didn’t want me to have an epidural.
I’m having my second in two months so I really hope this has improved by then!

When I saw this headline I said to my husband, tell me something I don't already know. This was true 20 years ago, this was true when epidurals were newish and Esther Rantzen was making 'That's Life' consumer programmes about poor NHS maternity care in the 1970s, so it doesn't surprise me to hear it's still true now. I always chose medicalised options on my birth plan so it was harder for them to fob me off but I had friends they had done it to: any excuse 'you are too early' but usually 'you are too late' (so you had suffered lots of pain to get to this point)...there was always the issue of the only anaethetist being 'on call elsewhere' as well.... if men gave birth, this would have improved years ago - so sad to realise it is still as bad as 1960s essentially when my Mum was offered just gas and air...
It is possible to do things reasonably painfree...I was induced with my first and it went TENS machine..gas and air...epidural....epidural top up....painfree assisted delivery.......for my second I opted for a C-Section as no one could guarantee proper pain relief would otherwise be available.
In theory you have a legal right to C-Section also, as well as adequate pain relief....it doesn't seem to work in practice though.

Ah mumsnet in all its glory again. The second anyone has a different opinion then abuse is the only answer.

Someone up said about how exhausted they were after a traumatic labour, and subsequent inability to bond with baby. This happened to me, 36 hours labour, back to back big baby, 3 top ups of the epi (without which I think I'd be dead), high ventouse delivery, major tearing.

If only we could control pain better during labour... but of course it can be done if 'they' want to enough. But they just don't. And like another PP said "enjoy the pain of your vasectomy, just breathe through it". Ha fucking ha.

User bang!

2006 I was refused all pain medication in birth. 2008 I was told I could have an epidural but by time it was organised I would probably be pushing so I agreed not to have one.

It would be unusual for a midwife to refuse an epidural out of spite or some sort of notion that "women must suffer".*

I have to say I don't think it is. And my doctor relatives don't think so either! Not spite, but certainly a very misplaced sense of "midwives know best". Mine even withheld the pain relief prescribed by the consultant who did my c-section when I went on to the post natal ward, despite me being in extreme pain. There is a philosophy of less is best which is absolutely not best medical practice.

I insisted on an ELCS partly due to this and even then the midwives were trying to force me into the birthing unit instead and telling me I might be made to have a vaginal birth. I made very clear on my birthing plan that I considered that an enormous violation and would take legal action if I was denied the c-section. I had to threaten to complain to PALS before they finally got the message, and it caused me a huge amount of anxiety for much of my pregnancy.

Women in labour and pregnancy should not have to fight like this for their basic medical rights. I agree with a PP, it is a form of abuse and it must be stopped.

I had a 23hour labour and epidural was put off until hour 19. Takes the piss, I was absolutely exhausted and was induced. Horrific and still a little traumatised.

Every woman should have the option of epidural, the real option, not the 'it's available if you need it' pretence, 'just hold on a bit longer' an hour later 'in a bit', an hour later 'just a wait another while' 5 seconds later 'oops it's too late now'.
It's an anaesthetist shortage problem? Sort it out, then. There's enough money there, contrary to popular belief. It's just that maternity care and women in general, just aren't prioritised in the NHS. Not even prioritised: just not deemed worthy enough.

It seems that, if the people claiming to be healthcare professionals on here are to be believed, that there are as many opinions on epidurals as there are healthcare professionals. I wonder why the NHS bothers to issue guidance at all.

@FelicisNox but that’s irrelevant if the woman has made a choice and requested one, even if a midwife is completely against epidurals for all those reasons then she still has no good reason to deny women the choice. Women make their own choices, whether their decisions are honoured shouldn’t be down to luck of whether the care provider personally agrees or not

Midwives discourage epidurals because they increase various risks, they aren’t a fluffy benign magical cloud, and the risk/benefit needs to be considered before putting a needle into your spine and introducing various drugs.

Instead of demanding epidurals, why not get up off your back and let gravity help deliver your baby.

I was refused even gas and air. The midwife said it would make me sick even though I had gas and air during a sweep and found it helped.

The midwife also ordered me not to scream as I was 'wasting energy' and told me my pushing was 'pathetic', luckily my DD was born fit and healthy with my pathetic pushing but my midwife was an outrageous control freak and bully.

Instead of demanding epidurals, why not get up off your back and let gravity help deliver your baby.

No.

@MarvellousMonsters women are capable of balancing risk and perceived benefit though, let's not pretend it's about anything other than underfunding and lack of staff. I was given a list on the potential risks when I was encouraged to think about a birthing plan, obviously it was pointless as I was denied one anyway, but as a patient I am capable of making that decision without someone going against guidance and saying no.

Marvellous do you not think women can be trusted to make their own decisions about their bodies?

What makes you think that women aren't mobile during labour?

I’m not sure I’d describe it as “spite” but there was something very odd going on in two if my labours. They were 4 years apart and in very different settings (and I had two other successful happy births with lovely “normal” midwives).
Unpleasant birth one: midwife refused to believe I was in labour, despite cracking regular contractions. She just turned the trace down and said they weren’t contractions. After groaning on the floor for an hour my waters broke dramatically, she said we’d have to check it wasn’t urine. I gave birth a few mins later. No pain relief.

Second horrible birth experience was much worse. Nothing could have been less what I wanted and I was told I couldn’t have an epidural or in fact anything beyond gas and air unless I tried the birthing pool (which I had categorically said I didn’t want). Once in they revealed I couldn’t have an epidural because I was wet and anyway I would have to be transferred to another hospital and it was too late. I hate them. I hate them fir making it so humiliating and horrible. It was over a decade ago and I still cry if I think about it and still find it hard to deal with any medical people. I get nightmares.