To feel vindicated by the D of H report, which confirms midwives are withholding epidurals?

[RevolutionofourTime]

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2020/mar/03/women-in-labour-being-refused-epidurals-official-inquiry-finds

I was denied pain relief during my first labour for no reason whatsoever. When I complained to the head of midwifery, she encouraged me to try a home birth next time. 🤨 I have also witnessed other women in maternity ward being denied pain relief.

Despite this, I have seen it argued here time and again that midwives are not acting as gatekeepers or withholding proper pain relief in labour.

This report confirms what many of us know.

I will be curious to see if this will lead to changes- more specifically, to adherence to the Nice guidelines that it’s never too early and never too late for an epidural in labour.

Horrendous. I had s terrible experience in hospital and would only give birth at home now.

@auslass yes definitely a happy medium.

Obviously women don’t need a ‘natural birth at all costs’ ideology around childbirth but similarly a paternalistic over-medicalised outlook with ‘birth is dangerous for all women and needs to always be managed in hospital with a team of drs who will dictate every decision’ is also harmful.

Women need options, choices supported by cler evidence, respecting and LISTENING TO above everything else.

It’s interesting to me that, as medicine has progressed, there are some things where anaesthetic / sedation / pain relief are considered crucial, and others where it’s seen as superfluous.

Resetting a bone, putting a joint back in place are objectively seen as situations where drugs are needed. Even having a filling or a tooth removed. And yet childbirth is recognised as one of the most painful things a person can endure, amputating a limb is higher on the scale but not much else, not to mention long-lasting.

People say a woman can give birth without anaesthesia, but any of these things technically could be done without, it would just be considered barbaric. Anaesthesia always comes with risks, but it’s seen as the humane option, except where birth is concerned.

I wonder why this is. Actually, I know why, but still interesting to consider it.

I was denied pethadine and an epidural at about 6/7cm. "Too late".
Two hours later they offered me an epidural when I was about 8/9cm. I refused because by that time I was in too much pain to stay still for the 20 minutes they wanted me to

A "natural" (without pain relief) labour can be extremely rewarding and is definitely a realistic options for most. I think a lot of us discount it out of hand. We need to ensure we give options and highlight any risk properly.

Thanks, but no thanks, I'd rather crawl up a whale's arse and sing.

I found ALL my labours rewarding...you know, given they resulted in my children.

Omg namechange, I did not have to stay still for 20 minutes, just for a few seconds.

I was induced I told them from the start I wanted an epidural. They said anaethetist is with someone else but was aware of me. I never got the epidural they said it was too late despite the fact I'd gone on about it from the minute I was told I needed to be induced. I was in absolute agony it's put me off ever having another baby. The midwife was horrible she's lucky I didn't put a formal complaint in. It's disgusting that women are being made to suffer that pain for no reason. If you ask for something your voice should be heard no matter what

They talked me out of one when I asked. Eventually a few hours later I managed to get one, but my experience would have been so much better if I'd got one when I'd asked.

I'm having an elective section this time. I don't trust half the midwives to respect my wishes.

After my first labour, I was determined not to be fobbed off again. I was induced with my second at 33 weeks due to complications. I insisted to have the epidural sited before the induction started. This made for a very peaceful labour, I even managed to sleep. I woke up fully dilated and ready to push. DS was born minutes later.

I’m very thankful to the lovely anaesthetists on MN who told me it is possible to request the epidural prior to induction.

DS was very poorly and received bad care. I can’t imagine how I would have managed if I had been recovering from another horrendous birth.

A "natural" (without pain relief) labour can be extremely rewarding and is definitely a realistic options for most. I think a lot of us discount it out of hand. We need to ensure we give options and highlight any risk properly.

Having pain when not necessary sounds totally bonkers to me.

Having a living child is rewarding. The way it comes into the world is just that. There are no rewards for being in pain for no good reason. You wouldn't tell someone that it is more rewarding to have your appendix out without pain relief, would you?

I know that the NHS is understaffed and there are problems. However I am a nurse and I look after post operative patients on a very busy surgical area. Never in a million years would I allow a patient of mine to be screaming and crying in agony. I would haul the nearest doctor there to prescribe whatever pain relief was necessary. This ridiculous notion that in this day and age women should still expect to have to suffer in child birth is frightening. Why is it still being allowed to happen when pain relief is so advanced and available.

For anyone querying whether epidural slows down labour. Admittedly it's a small study sample.
www.rcog.org.uk/en/news/study-suggests-epidural-does-not-slow-second-stage-of-labour/

A "natural" (without pain relief) labour can be extremely rewarding and is definitely a realistic options for most. I think a lot of us discount it out of hand. We need to ensure we give options and highlight any risk properly

A natural vasectomy can be extremely rewarding. It's definitely a realistic option for most and people discount it. Said no one. Ever.

Having pain when not necessary sounds totally bonkers to me.

Well, I could have had more pain relief than gas and air, but chose not to. It made me feel strong that I could get through the pain, like a personal challenge to myself. But then I'm a bit like that with exercise too, feels good to carry on when you feel like collapsing. That said, I cannot cope with illness/nausea and will take any anti-nausea meds I can!! We all deal with things different, not either or is th right way.

And obviously just because you have a certain pain threshold you can withstand, doesn't mean anybody else should, so I hope that's not taken in the wrong way.

I was denied an epidural, lost vast amounts of blood and almost died. Truly believe that if DP handing have been there myself and DC would not have made it. A truly horrific experience largely due to agency midwives who could not give a shit. Still get flashbacks five and a half years later- this report saddens me deeply but I'm not at all surprised.

It is down to personal choice of course.
But I do not agree with women more or less begging for pain relief and being told the anaesthetic is busy it's too late etc. It is never too late. No-one should ever be in pain when they don't have to be

*anaethetist

No-one should ever be in pain when they don't have to be

I agree

With me it wasn't an epidural, I wasn't allowed any gas and air. I went in to be induced and due to where my DS head was (pressing on my cervix) the internal exams were incredibly painful and the midwife wouldn't let me have any pain relief even though I was screaming in pain, yet the next day when a different midwife came to do the exam I asked again of I could have some gas and air just for while she did the exam and she said "of course you can, we have it on tap" I still don't understand why I wasn't allowed any.

The only people weirdoes who find physical pain rewarding are clearly masochists.

I've re-registered on mumsnet for the first time in years, just to post my experiences with my second labour. I explicitly asked for an early epidural, following a 3 day labour and crappy induction with forceps delivery for my first. Midwife tried repeatedly to talk me out of it, even telling me I should have had a home birth (seriously, was a high risk delivery, on labour suite, and a home delivery would likely have killed one or both of us!) But I was like a broken record, and kept asking. Eventually got one. DD turned out to be back to back, with a head circumference off the charts, and I needed a spinal and high forceps to deliver her, whereupon she needed to be resuscitated.

Whilst I was recovering, the midwife came and told me that I had failed her, and the student midwife had wasted a day caring for me and not even got a birth out of it, as I had ended up in theatre, so her training had been negatively affected.

Luckily for said midwife, I was so high on drugs at the time that I just nodded, shellshocked, and then when I got home and had toddler and newborn to care for, the last thing I could be arsed with was a complaint.

But this report does not surprise me at all, after that experience!

I was told that the anaesthetist was busy.

I wanted to walk into the road and be hit by a car.

To be fair, there is such a thing as “too late for an epidural”.

I have a moderate twist in my spine, so if my natural labours had developed complications then there would go any chance of an epidural for a section. I’d be straight under GA and out of it for a significant period of time. They wouldn’t be able to administer an epidural without a fluoroscopy to get it in the correct place in an emergency situation.

I think epidurals are extreme measures of pain relief, personally. And all other pain relief options should be given first and foremost.