AIBU about transgender person taking legal action against NHS for allowing her to transition? [[title edited by MNHQ on OP's behalf]]

[HollyGoLoudly1]

A 23 year old is taking legal action against the NHS for giving her treatment to transition to male as a teenager. She has since decided to live as a female and is taking legal action against the NHS as they should have 'challenged her' more when she wanted to transition rather than giving her the treatment.

The NHS can't do right for doing wrong here. Cash strapped to the point of collapse and being sued for giving someone the treatment they asked for. I despair.

AIBU or is this absolutely ludicrous?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-51676020
from MNHQ - this title and OP originally said the person concerned was suing the NHS. They are in fact just taking legal action. The OP has asked us to make this clear but you may find some of the early posts reflect the words in the original title

What a terrible situation & I agree that it is awful that this is happening to kids.

I wonder how far they are led to believe that they can truly be the opposite sex and how much this is driving some to transition?

I know someone whose daughter wanted to transition at 16. Her family persuaded her to wait till she was much older and only started treatments last year mid twenties. They had a long wait anyway on the NHS , but they managed to get her to see if it was the right thing for her and to really think it through first. Her GP also supported this approach.
If I were to hear they now don't want this then I would be a bit upset as they were really given good advice and willing to wait and see if it's what they really wanted to do.
I can't comment on this case but I agree that her parents should have taken a more pragmatic approach to this? I know it's not easy but if people can transition quite easily or before they really know it's the right thing then this can't be good either. It's a big lifestyle change for everyone not just the person going through it.

Only the other week there was a post stating nhs Is taking too long to provide treatment? Can’t win

@DuLANGMondeFOREVER

Sky news - Keira Bell is taking NHS Tavistock and Portman to court over the treatment she received for gender dysphoria.

To me this means she is taking the NHS to court in order to change how things are done and will most likely receive a payment for compensation based on her treatment and her feelings. This to me is suing someone.

If no payment is offered or taken but protocols are changed then I will apologise and take back my comment.

It’s a rogue part of the NHS, it doesn’t behave like the other bits, that’s why it needs to be critically examined by a judge.

Absolutely though we should be very concerned that it has been able to continue to operate outside of usual Safeguarding & ethical evidence-based practice for so long.

The children who have been referred there have not been Safeguarded in the way they would be in other parts of the NHS.
Why should this group of vulnerable children have fewer protections?

I do agree that a lot more needs to be done to prevent young people making life changing decisions because they’re unhappy with themselves and have fallen down the rabbit hole of trans. I was an unhappy gay ungirly teenager spending too much time online in the 90s, I feel I would’ve been prone to this kind of

She said herself that she wouldn’t have listened as a teenager to people trying to stop her.

Doctors who try to stop teenagers from transitioning will simply be branded transphobic

Also with Keira Bell, a lot of her wanting to be male rather than female seem to stem from being bullied at school, not fitting in & thinking that she would have it easier as a boy, which surely would be not good enugh reasons to transition?

But despite all the clear evidence, it's still come to this anyway - a judicial review.

I'm praying it stops the juggernaut.

Yes, many people are doing the same & also offering whatever support they can to Keira, the parents & professionals who have stepped forward to push for Judicial Review.

Fascinated with implants and hormone treatment breasts will at least look passable.

A working penis is never going to be realistically replicated if someone changes their mind. Nor will the ability to ejaculate.

It's butchery. And these people who have changed their mind later on need to speak up more.

I can't comment on this case but I agree that her parents should have taken a more pragmatic approach to this?

There is a far higher than average percentage of gender distressed kids in the ‘looked after’ system. Not everyone has parents who are willing or able to take the approach your friends did.
There are lots and lots of detransitioners speaking out now. YouTube is full of women in their early to mid 20s who are now ‘reidentifying’. Many of them report changing their minds when they got to the point where they actually passed as male. It’s an adjudication, striving to tick off one achievement after the next. They get to a certain point and realise how futile it all was, because humans cannot change sex.

adjudication should read ‘addiction’.

PixieDustt

Can you tell me what effect Puberty Blockers and hormone therapy have on decision making?

The answer is that nobody knows because the studies haven’t been done to an acceptable standard. Excess testosterone is known to impair decision making in some steroid users.

She isn’t asking for money.

a lot of her wanting to be male rather than female seem to stem from being bullied at school, not fitting in & thinking that she would have it easier as a boy, which surely would be not good enugh reasons to transition?

Counsellors, therapists & medical practioners are not able to challenge children's belief that their gender identity is that of the opposite sex.

Transactivists lobbied to establish a Memorandum of Understanding which limits the capacity to challenge or explore what else might be going on for children once they have been identified as transgender.

Only the other week there was a post stating nhs Is taking too long to provide treatment?
According to who? The lobby groups full of (mainly adults with male genitals who want to be called women whilst retaining their functioning genitalia) adults aggressively trying to shut down open and robust debate in order to push children down the route of life long medication with large consequences for later sex life and fertility?
The people who insist there's no medical issues behind gender dysphoria whilst conveniently deciding they need the NHS to provide medical care for them?
can’t win
Of course the NHS can win.
They could approach gender dysphoria how they approach anorexia.
They could deploy watchful waiting.
They could offer therapy to teens to get to the route cause of their feelings.
They could offer proper therapy if and when the decision is made that transition is the most likely way for an ADULT to deal with dysphoria.

Really the big question is how has this situation been allowed to happen and what are the links in rich/powerful circles where this debate has been buried for years?

sorry not read the whole thread
Just want to say to those blaming the parents, what are they supposed to do? if the professionals suggest a transitioning pathway and transactivists use inflated/incorrect suicide stats as emotional backmail, it's no wonder that parents succumb.
what a shit situation and i agree with the poster who says nhs shouldn't be funding the whole thing- full stop. gender dysphoria- however bad, does not mean that a person is actually of the opposite sex. we need to stop fooling everyone.

There is a far higher than average percentage of gender distressed kids in the ‘looked after’ system. Not everyone has parents who are willing or able to take the approach your friends did.

Transactivists have lobbied & even been involved in the production of policies which require foster carers & social care professonals to affirm LAC who are identified as transgender.

The most vulnerable children are being completely failed.

For some children, the source of the distress which manifests as questioning gender will be abuse.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3324578-Vunerabilities-of-Looked-After-Children-Social-Work-CP-restricted-by-affirmation-requirement-Trans-Youth-in-Care-Toolkit

YABU. I hope she wins. I hope this is a watershed moment. I hope Mermaids and Stonewall are next to be looked at. Ultimately dismantled. What a brave young woman.

I had a friend with 6 children who had to fight to be sterilised in case ‘she change her mind’, but you can make teenagers infertile.
If you’d ask me at 15 if I’d ever want a baby I would have said 100% no. You can’t make lifelong decisions at that age.

Surely she would have the brains to realise what she was getting into? Not the NHS fault it is hers.

**
Surely she would have the brains to realise what she was getting into?

Yes of course - even anorexic 14 year olds have the brain to know that they're too fat and need to starve.

Well Lola
As someone alluded to upthread, I firmly believe this is a mens' sexual rights movement.
Take away safeguarding and give children autonomy over their own decisions around their 'sex' and we are on the road to then saying that if children can take such big decision the age of consent can be reduced. After all, if they can 'change' sex, they can have sex.
I then marry up the AGP element of late transitioners (altho transitioning to what - most don't have any reassignment surgery) and it convinces me more than ever.

Just want to say to those blaming the parents, what are they supposed to do? if the professionals suggest a transitioning pathway and transactivists use inflated/incorrect suicide stats as emotional backmail, it's no wonder that parents succumb.

Absoutely
The message parents receive is to accept they have a child who is the opposite sex or risk the death of their child.

This message comes from groups such as Mermaids who apparently represent both children & their families.

Simultaneously their children are told that their parents are dreadful transphobes if they do not agree to affirm & that their 'glitter family' will replace them if necessary.

Its a complete failure of the most fundamental Safeguarding frameworks.

You can’t assess what you are getting into if nobody is allowed to question your viewpoint and present a challenge.

"Counsellors, therapists & medical practioners are not able to challenge children's belief that their gender identity is that of the opposite sex."

But that's the thing-it's not clear that she wanted to be the opposite sex or was just musing because she didn't seem to fit in & was one of the few girls to wear trousers to school.

My life would be easier if I was taller than the 5ft that I am-but it's never going to happen!

Surely she would have the brains to realise what she was getting into?

There are plenty of adults with substantial professional qualifications who have failed to challenge the narrative that children know they should be the opposite sex & the best response if they are girls is to prescribe off licence drugs which inhibit puberty, testosterone, double mastectomy & hyterectomy.

Im surprised we expect clearer thinking of children, especially those whove who in their distress have been advised by trusted professionals/adults that they could be happier if they 'change sex'.