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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Give me the reasons why you are a climate sceptic?

382 replies

malificent7 · 29/02/2020 12:51

I'm not by the way...but neither am i overly anxious about it.
Some of my friends are and are also very against Greta Thunberg etc. So is it possiblook e to be worried about climate change but anti Greta and/ or do you think climate change is baloney?

Given the recent bush fires in Australia i think we should all be aware that we are all at the mercy of our climate, even if we don't think change is man made.

OP posts:
KahlanRahl · 05/03/2020 12:15

Damn, I couldn't see the screen on my mobile while posting. Sorry for the typo's.

Jillyhilly · 05/03/2020 13:13

Over 95% of climate scientists say that climate change is real, man made and will be catastrophic if we don’t change.

Here we go again.

No, they do not.

Repeat ad nauseam.

Msmcc1212 · 05/03/2020 15:36

Jilly Hilly:
A yet to be published meta analysis of all climate change models (there are hundreds) are ALL saying the same thing. Some scientists without an expertise in climate change have differing views but my money is in those with the specific expertise required. First hand, from very intelligent, rational people who have spent their entire careers researching this, I have been told the above. It’s a natural human response to bury our heads in the sand and hope that this isn’t happening. But it is. I wish it wasn’t. But it is. Already it is having devastating effects on people around the world.

Also with any risk assessment you ask what’s the likelihood and what’s the likely outcome? Well the experts say highly likely and the outcomes are likely to be disastrous. Surely better safe than sorry if the sacrifices are so small.

Don’t get me wrong, I feel really sad that there is so much of the world I’m yet to see and now won’t because I can’t fly knowing it has such a terrible impact on others now and my children in the future. But is my desire to travel more important than someone’s else’s life? No. It’s not. Simple as that.

PlanDeRaccordement · 05/03/2020 15:41

“Yet to be published” is the same as “a little bird told me”

Msmcc1212 · 05/03/2020 15:50

That’s fine if you don’t want to believe me. It’s your choice. It’s not a finished piece of work yet so I can’t send you a link to prove it.

I wish I could agree with you that there is more doubt than I believe there is. I wish it more than anything. More than ANYTHING!

I wish you felt stronger so that you could face the truth. But I can’t change that. I can do my bit. And I do. So do many others. You need to make your own choices and denial is a powerful human motivator.

Best of luck. Ta ta. Smile

PlanDeRaccordement · 05/03/2020 15:55

MSMcc

Not denying that climate changes. Just the cause of it being manmade. The IPCC climate models merely measure their simulation against actual observations. Usually from 1900 to 2000 to test their “accuracy”.
They aren’t that accurate for one. And for two the fact we can get a simulation to sort of match what happened in the last century neither proves nor disproves the primary cause of climate change (man vs. Nature)
See here for IPCC own document on climate modelling
www.ipcc.ch/site/assets/uploads/2018/02/ar4-wg1-chapter8-1.pdf

Msmcc1212 · 05/03/2020 16:08

Hypothetically: So my house is falling into the ground.
Most of the experts (and we’ve asked many) say it’s the foundations crumbling because they weren’t built right. It will be very expensive and very inconvenient to fix, but we could save our house. We have no where else to live and no means to buy a new house. A few experts have said it is just naturally shifting ground and there is nothing we can do.
The cracks are starting to show.
Surely the sensible thing to do is try and fix the foundations? Worst case scenario house falls down anyway and we’ve wasted money but the alternative is do nothing and stay in the sinking house at great risk but with guaranteed awful outcome...anyway.

Too many other things to do and this is distracting me. Thanks for the debate and for starting it OP. It’s better we all talk about the elephant in the room 😁

PlanDeRaccordement · 05/03/2020 16:30

The situation is nothing like a house falling apart because the planet is not falling apart.
Never ever has any species become extinct due to CO2 levels which have been as much as 15x higher than they are today. Temperatures have been 5C warmer too for humans and polar bears and they survived.(polar bears are descended from brown cave bears).
The planet will not become uninhabitable. Humans and polar bears will simply migrate around like they have always done and are doing. This has all happened before and the “house” always remained habitable.

Msmcc1212 · 05/03/2020 16:35

Never in history have there been this many humans!!!
You are bugging me now. I don’t think you have any deep level of expertise. I have good friends that absolutely do. I’ll listen to them rather than a random nay sayer.

Hagbeth · 05/03/2020 16:38

I’m more worried about plastics in the ocean. Climate develops over centuries and is cyclical. What we’re seeing is normal weather changes.

Ofthread · 05/03/2020 16:44

People on the internet should STFU about things that they do not understand, or at least develop the valuable life skill of being able to countenance the possibility that you might be wrong, or that your beliefs might have been informed by a few lines in the DM or on Twitter. There is so much ignorance and pseudo-science on this thread. I'm actually going to report it.

Ofthread · 05/03/2020 16:54

Dropping in some valid journalism here: www.theguardian.com/environment/climate-consensus-97-per-cent/2014/jun/25/global-warming-zombies-devour-telegraph-fox-news-brains

We need to go to war with this conspiracy theory bullshit. That is all.

JayAlfredPrufrock · 05/03/2020 17:21

Report the thread 😂

Nighttimefreedom · 05/03/2020 17:28

The planet will not become uninhabitable. Humans and polar bears will simply migrate around like they have always done and are doing

Nighttimefreedom · 05/03/2020 17:30

Sorry meant to add, this may be true but there will be a huge impact on people, humans may well survive as a species, but not without cost to a lot of people living on the planet today

corythatwas · 05/03/2020 19:18

Humans and polar bears will simply migrate around like they have always done and are doing. This has all happened before and the “house” always remained habitable.

It is likely to make the political situation extremely unstable. And humans do now have access to weapons which could go a fair way towards making the house uninhabitable.

As for the polar bears, if they try to migrate, they will have to go south into more densely inhabited places. Given that polar bears are very dangerous animals who view humans as prey, this is unlikely to end well for the polar bears.

PlanDeRaccordement · 05/03/2020 20:33

True we have billions of humans and overpopulation is a possibility.
But all of us dying due to too much CO2 is not a possibility. That is what the climate crisis is based on- the wrong belief that too much CO2 will kill all human life and that of many other species.

I’ve never said that we don’t need to take care of the planet or are not polluting it or that there are no environmental concerns. There are a great many. And I think the demonisation of CO2 is taking away focus and billions in funding from fixing the real environmental catastrophes.

JohnMcCainsDeathStare · 05/03/2020 20:59

So where's the link to that bottomless pit of funding that climate skeptics talk so much about? I sense slacking here!

Writersblock2 · 05/03/2020 21:10

I’ve really enjoyed this thread and I thank those of you willing to put your neck on the line and speak against current popular opinion.

IsisCam · 05/03/2020 21:37

@PlanDeRaccordement
I really enjoyed reading your responses. It’s nice to know a stranger on the Internet has exactly the same understanding of the situation. I was to tired to write long explanations and engage in discussions, but you summarize everything I feel perfectly.
Just too repeat
Guys if you care about the environment limit your consumption of everything. Not just the things people are trying to sell you replacements for. Humans have a bad impact on the planet but co2 is likely not the worst by far. Anyway if you want to lower co2 limit your meat consumption, don’t drive to some rally or install solar panels.
Science is not what you think it is and there are many factor that influence what scientists say, they main of them being essentially prestige and money.

Jillyhilly · 06/03/2020 10:28

I agree with you IsisCam in that humans have had some negative impact on the planet.

But I think we must also appreciate that as a species we have also done some incredibly positive things too, and at the heart of that is the same ingenuity and creativity that will help us to solve our current problems. (I think that science, technology and business is what will take us forward, not government restrictions on our individual freedoms.). I find it very interesting that this more positive narrative has gone completely out of fashion.

Our lives today are quite unbelievably luxurious when compared to the entire history of humanity, and I’m not just talking about the Primark factor. For most of human history, life for most people was a non-stop godawful struggle just to survive, and I think we need to always remember that and remember how unbelievably lucky we are to live when we live. Hot water, heating and lighting at the touch of a button, the availability of food, transport, medical care, entertainment - all these things that make up modern life, that we totally take for granted. It’s nothing short of a miracle, and as a race we (and fossil fuels) have created this. It’s so strange that in the midst of this comparatively extraordinary wealth, ease and prosperity, which our ancestors wouldn’t even have been able to dream of, we are now panicking about the end of the planet and pouring guilt and shame upon ourselves about being nothing more than evil, greedy little CO2 footprints.

It’s just terribly complex. All this banging on about CO2 emissions and fossil fuels comes in my opinion from a place of great privilege, from people who already have comfy warm homes, computers and smartphones, fridges and washing machines and lights that switch on when you want them to. Globally more and more people have been lifted out of poverty in recent years (partly due to our consumer culture!) and there’s plenty of evidence that a country’s child mortality rates fall as CO2 emissions increase. Don’t we want that for everyone? People in poorer countries desperately need access to cheap, accessible, efficient sources of energy, and that means fossil fuels because you can bet that given the choice they won’t want to be fannying around with solar panelled light bulbs.

None of this means that on an individual level we shouldn’t all be doing what we can to reduce waste: this seems like a sensible, ethical way to live. But I’m not going to get cross with anyone else - especially people who don’t have as much as I do - for buying cheap clothes or stuff that makes their lives a little easier.

For what it’s worth I do understand why people get so defensive and angry about this topic. I think there is quite a bit of evidence of this on this thread, and it tends to appear as insults, put-downs or just refusing to continue the conversation - but I think this is based on fear, and the way this story is covered in the media does nothing but engender more fear. So it’s understandable. I used to feel this fear and anger defensiveness too, and I too was quick to use the “denier” label, but digging into the topic in more detail has helped me to understand much more about it and have a more nuanced perspective, which also helps me be less influenced by headlines and led more by my head than my heart.

PlanDeRaccordement · 06/03/2020 12:06

@JohnMcCainsDeathStare
So where's the link to that bottomless pit of funding that climate skeptics talk so much about? I sense slacking here!

Only @ you because you must have missed where I posted multiple links to billions in funding sources on pg 12 of the thread. Here it is again:

UN has the Green Climate Fund of 5.4 billion (in USD) funded by 194 countries.
www.greenclimate.fund/

Won’t list the EU funds because Brexit. But in addition to UN:

U.K. has a £60m annual fund for innovation:
www.pinsentmasons.com/out-law/news/uk-innovation-fund-to-tackle-climate-change

Also a £56m annual fund for health subjects related to climate change:
www.gov.uk/government/news/new-funding-to-research-health-impact-of-climate-change

Inside philanthropy has a list of over fifty private funders for climate change. They’ve already contributed over £3bn.

PlanDeRaccordement · 06/03/2020 12:11

@IsisCam
Wow. I’m am really happy to hear that you are of like mind to me. Some days I think I am alone in my thinking. Thank you for letting me know.

Jillyhilly · 06/03/2020 16:09

You’re not alone Plan.

PlanDeRaccordement · 06/03/2020 18:47

Thank you JillyHilly. I have enjoyed your posts too. I agree with just about everything you posted too btw.