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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Aibu to think in Pride and Prejudice Mrs Bennett is actually the good parent and Mr Bennett is the silly one?

175 replies

SuburbanFraggle · 28/02/2020 11:50

Yes, she is shrill and annoying and he is chilled out and cool HOWEVER they have five daughters, unmarried who together with his wife will be basically destitute if he dies.

In those days a simple infection, broken arm or whatever could quickly kill you. Even if there was a small sum set aside for them they would end up like Miss Bates in Emma; a very meager existence, at the bottom of their social class and unlikely to marry, thus making it a lifelong situation unless they became governesses - the only respectable employment they could find.

The mother realises this and is trying to get them their own households ASAP before they lose the entailed property. There is not much of a dowry, split between five to make them attractive to suitors. Marriage was a BUSINESS DEAL in those days, and if you're lucky you'll be happy too. Mr Bennett just didn't GAF. All this follow your heart business is not helpful when the six of them (widow and daughters) are stuffed in a tiny cottage and relying on handouts.

It was not unreasonable to try and match one with Mr Collins SO THAT THEY COULD STAY IN THEIR HOME. The bookish one would have been a better match with hindsight but she was not unreasonable to expect Elizabeth to do her duty and save the family. For every story that ends with a Darcy there are a hundred more ending in the Workhouse.

Of course they would not end up with zero, probably some small allowance would be in place, the reality is that the women COULD NOT LEGALLY INHERIT Mr Bennett's estate because of the law at that time regarding entailed property.

AIBU to think Mrs Bennett was the better parent because she cared about the welfare of her children even if she went about it in a bumbling way?

OP posts:
GrumpyHoonMain · 28/02/2020 13:46

I get he impression the Gardiners (portrayed as rich) would have taken care of them had Mr Bennett died, so there probably wasn’t any reason to be too concerned. In those days brothers often did take care of their widowed sisters and their children.

6000choccybiccies · 28/02/2020 13:48

When Mr Bennet justifies Lydia going into a risky situation with the phrase 'she won't be happy until she's exposed herself in some public place' (or something like that) you see he puts an easy life for himself above the welfare of his daughters

Porcupineinwaiting · 28/02/2020 13:53

Mrs Bennet most certainly doesn't have her daughters' best interest at heart. Yes she wants them married, and yes you can see why, but she'd marry them to anything. Look how delighted she us at Lydia marrying George Wickham. Not because she understands that she'd be ruined if she doesn't, she doesnt see that at all. No recognition that even the life of a dependent spinster or governess might be preferable to being married to an immoral, profligate, cheating to-day.

Porcupineinwaiting · 28/02/2020 13:53

toe-rag

MarchDaffs · 28/02/2020 13:54

I sort of thought that about the Gardners too. It wouldn't be anyone's first choice, but they probably weren't going to be the gentlewomen starving in freezing garrets. Although Austen herself was treated very badly by her brother who didn't look after her well, so there is that.

Nomorepies · 28/02/2020 13:55

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on the poster's request.

JaneDacre · 28/02/2020 13:56

Thank you @MarchDaffs Thanks

justasking111 · 28/02/2020 13:57

Daughter were liabilities in those days, sons revered. What would have happened if the Bennetts had a son I wonder. Mrs. Bennett did the best she could imo.

Ohyesiam · 28/02/2020 13:58

They are both rubbish in different ways. AsDarcy asserts, Mr B is implicated in impropriety as well as his wife , Kitty and Lydia.

Mr B just opts out. I imagine he thought each successive pregnancy would bring a boy, and just gave Up when it didn’t.
But if Mrs B did actually want to get her girls married, she could reflect a bit on what effect the things she says have on the people around her. She pushes suitable suitors away with her foolishness.

As for mr Collins, I think he couldn’t opt for a third daughter. If mrs B had had the presence of mind to suggest Mary instead of Elizabeth when it transpired he couldn’t have Jane, it could have solved the problem. But ruined the plot obvs.

Dozer · 28/02/2020 13:59

They were both dicks. Agree that Mr Bennett worse.

Mrs Bennett’s focus on securing marriage to wealthy(or at least comfortable) men was sensible, as was seeking to capitalise on Jane’s beauty and agreeableness. But her approach was flawed and showed poor judgment! Being too pushy and obvious, putting off the “higher class” suitors, and agreeing to Lydia’s trip.

Porcupineinwaiting · 28/02/2020 14:00

For all Mr Bennet professes to do nothing to aid his daughters towards marriage , he does make an early acquaintance of Mr Bingley so he can introduce him to the family. Despite telling his wife that he won't.

YesThatsATurdOnTheRug · 28/02/2020 14:01

YABU because they were both pretty awful!

LonnyVonnyWilsonFrickett · 28/02/2020 14:03

Both dicks. Mrs B is completely overwhelmed and shares some of my characteristics when panicky - over-loud, convinced am hilarious, no ability to read a room. Their lives were so precarious.

minipie · 28/02/2020 14:05

Yes Porcupine although it seems like he does it purely to get one up on his wife ie so he can wait till she berates him for not visiting and then reveal he has done so. Maybe just my reading!

SuburbanFraggle · 28/02/2020 14:10

Thanks for the link Eyeamhere

Some of the points/lines I liked from the article (by Rachel Dunphy);

Through the homogenizing fog of history, her obsession sometimes feels ridiculous—but when the options are marriage or destitution, and when you live in the countryside where well-bred men are scarce, and when at least two of your daughters are already past prime marriageable age, panic is understandable.

Love is lovely, but Mrs. Bennet’s mission is about survival.
...
Not all of her efforts are successful, to be sure, but marriage is a numbers game, and the Bennet matriarch is the sole, the necessary pragmatist in a house filled with idle dreamers.
...
Mrs. Bennet is revolutionary in her simple and abiding refusal to shut up, even as those for whom she chiefly advocates desperately wish for her do so....And that is remarkable given how highly reputation is valued in her world and how little it takes to destroy one.
...

Mr. Bennet, who sent the notoriously flirtatious Lydia to spend poorly supervised months with a bunch of soldiers in the first place, is content to publicly cut ties with his daughter and her husband solely out of spite....Lydia is oblivious and vain, obviously, but the small, selfish idiocies of teenagers are deserving of light mockery and forgiveness, not permanent condemnation. The youngest Bennet daughter’s girlish ridiculousness is timeless, but her mother’s decision not to ostracize her for her sexual misconduct—or even to acknowledge it as such—is quintessentially modern. It is a path few other Austen parents take.

That refusal to blame is not just kind but revolutionary.
...
Lizzie is an excellent woman of her era, but she lives within the boundaries of her place in society and doesn’t expect more for herself or from others. She succeeds in forging her path to happiness and prosperity, but it is a personal victory only, one that reinforces the oppressive system that she accepts without question.

The victories of her mother and sister are of a much more significant character. Though both behave in a way that is unacceptable according to the standards of their society, by simply refusing to care or notice these transgressions, they force those who do to go to extraordinary lengths to accommodate them. As much out of self-preservation as out of love, Lydia’s older sisters and their husbands spend the rest of their lives supporting her both financially and socially, frequently sending her money and hosting her in their mansions. Lydia has little regard for her own respectability, but as her status reflects on theirs, Jane and Lizzie must provide her with some of their own, and so Lydia continues to do exactly as she wants without ever sacrificing the comforts or pleasures she might have otherwise found.

This youngest daughter is thus Mrs. Bennet’s true heir, doing always what she wants over what she should, and using shame as a tool rather than allowing it to control or diminish herself. It is a bold, a risky path that can only be trod by those with the bravery and confidence to believe themselves worthy without validation, to demand what they want from life rather than accepting every injustice as fate. These are values Lydia learned from her mother, values she will teach to her daughters, and it is their legacy, their radical impropriety, that shapes the future.

Obviously, we can have a whole book club evening discussing the validity of those points but I thought they were very interesting.

OP posts:
Waspie · 28/02/2020 14:10

I always thought that Mr B was a gentleman and had married "down" to the gorgeous young Mrs B to be and then, believing that eventually he would have a son spent to the limits of his income. 5 girls later he realises his stupidity and retires to his library to navel gaze the rest of his life away. He has some great comic lines (as does Mrs B) but he is the worse parent.

Mrs B didn't have the manners or grace that a woman in her position should have had because she had married "up" and Mr B had never helped her adjust to her new status. He is at fault here too. Obviously it's not right that she wasn't accepted for herself but we can't apply the standards of our society with Austen's. Mrs B may have been cringey but she had wanted the best outcomes for her daughters and wasn't afraid to make that known. But as we can see, making it known and being such a social climber didn't help her girls at all.

By the time Lydia came along both parents had given up bothering to educate their children (IMO). After Jane and Lizzie the only reason to continue to have children was to have a boy, so all the girls from Mary on were just disappointments who it was increasingly unlikely they'd be able to marry off. It's very sad.

Fredthefrog · 28/02/2020 14:13

I think it is quite clear from the books that both are poor planners as the estate should have been able to create dowries for the girls but they always spent all their money. If they had more self control the girls could have been married off more easily.

Abraid2 · 28/02/2020 14:15

The truly grim story is that most married women would eventually die in childbirth or of the after-effects. If you married a well-off man at least your children might be properly looked after.

SuburbanFraggle · 28/02/2020 14:16

Abraid2

Not most but certainly very many.

OP posts:
mrsBtheparker · 28/02/2020 14:17

I urge you all to read Longbourn by Jo Baker. It’s a re-telling of P&P from the POV of one of the servants (Mrs Hill’s assistant I think). It’s really very good. You’ll never think of Mr Bennett in the same way again!

Just done a Kindle order!

MarchDaffs · 28/02/2020 14:17

With five daughters and the entail the girls were never going to have loads though were they? There shouldve been a few grand more but they weren't going to be that attractive financially to anyone who could provide for them. Unless they married non-gentry with money, like their father before them.

CaffiSaliMali · 28/02/2020 14:18

I always saw Mr Bennet as someone who was overwhelmed by his situation, and who didn't do anything proactive as it would have meant facing up to earlier mistakes such as not saving money for his family to live on after his death.

We were taught at school that Mrs Bennet was arguably the better parent in the sense that she saw the reality of their situation and was trying to ensure her daughters married to secure their future. Unfortunately her behaviour had the opposite effect.

Lizzie was clearly Mr Bennet's favourite. The way Mrs Bennet favoured the others annoyed me when I was in year 10 but now I wonder if she was just compensating for the way Mr Bennet treated them compared to Lizzie.

Waspie · 28/02/2020 14:23

I think for Mrs Bennet it as all about Jane. If she could just marry Jane off well the rest would follow in a sort of domino effect. Jane and rich new husband could have the girls to stay with them, mould and educate them and and introduce them to society.

I don't think she had hopes for Lizzie as she thought Lizzie too outspoken. Mary was too plain (and introverted), Kitty too young and Lydia too much like herself. All her hopes rested on Jane marrying well.

SuburbanFraggle · 28/02/2020 14:24

Interesting point about why they stopped at 5 children when they still 'needed a boy'.

Maybe the had several stillbirths and it wasn't talked about because it is not a 'polite' topic.

Even more grim (horror fanfic) there are extra baby girls locked in a Mrs Rochester attic or burried in the garden...

Maybe one of them or both of them decided to stop having 'marital relations'.

Maybe it was a birth injury that prevented further intimacy/pregnancies.

OP posts:
Bellesavage · 28/02/2020 14:26

I think both parents wanted the same thing BUT Mr Bennett didn't want it for Lizzie, he picks her out as needing more in life, but essentially is very happy to throw the other 4 under the bus to secure them good marriages