Not allowed to play with my dd - talk to the mum?

[ellieboolou33]

Dd is 7, struggled with friendship issues since nursery and recently discharged from CAMHS awaiting a diagnosis for high functioning asd.

She can say mean and inappropriate things at times, a bit socially awkward and doesn't make friends easily.

For the past few weeks dd has been playing with a girl in her class (been in same class with this girl for 3.5 years now) but came home yesterday saying girls mum told her friend she's not allowed to play with my dd.

I went to talk to teacher as sometimes dd doesn't get things right. Teacher confirmed girl was crying that she wanted to play with my dd but wasn't allowed as her mum said.

I'm so upset as if there was a problem I'd have liked to have been informed. Teacher said they had an argument a few weeks back but it was resolved and I wasn't aware of any of this.

I really want to speak to the mum but I'm a bit wary as she's in a "clique" they all sit together, and I don't want a playground spat. I had noticed the mum was offish, not smiling etc but didn't think much of it.

Teacher said she can't really say anything but told both girls they can play with who they like as long as no bullying involved.

AIBU to ask mum what the issues are?

I’ve been the mum saying to my daughter (same age as yours) don’t play with those girls, the reason: group of girls, some being mean, some going along with it but the outcome was my DD coming home every night and telling me how sad she felt. I told her various ways to deal with it and when none of those were working we told her she wasn’t allowed to play with any of the group for a few days, this was to make it clear to her as a seven year old this is a rule as ambivalence would have confused her, but mainly to give her a break from the upsets. Some of those girls were nice, but as a group they were causing issues. Spoke to the teacher too and the result was that my daughter was happier. She is playing with them again now but if it starts going mean again we will do the same again.

We had it with a mum at school who just purely and simply didn't like DD2, and told her daughter - who of course gleefully relayed the information to DD2. DD2 incidentally is the kindest natured little girl you'd meet, wouldn't say anything unkind to anyone, just wants to be everyone's friends - but she has dyspraxia and so has slightly impaired speech (completely intelligible) and her coordination isn't the greatest. Mum in question just is part of an absolutely foul clique who only want their daughters playing within the clique despite whatever the kids want - it's vicious, it's targeted and it's utterly unprovoked. Ironically the mum in question also has a child with a speech problem and works with young children - you think she'd have more empathy and understanding but nope.

School try to smooth things over as much as they can, but the situation's gone on for a couple of years. I just keep logging every example of unkind things being relayed from the mum as bullying now (it's gone on far too long to just be kids being kids) and try to gently steer DD2 in the direction of different friendships, and I'm going to strongly request that DD2 is placed in a different class next year.

We're at the point where I'm seriously considering moving schools if it's not resolved at some point in the near future (we have to transition infant to junior this year anyway so current school are supporting DD and trying to foster other friendships away from this group, and I'm seeing how they allocate the classes next year and how the school move shakes things down first). Unfortunately DD2 just landed in a year group where there must have been something in the coffee at the toddler group because the mum situation is horrendous in this class.

OP tell how their kid is being told unpleasant things and getting upset, the response is that they don't deserve to be treated badly regardless of the other child special needs and it's ok to have nothing to do with them.

OP says that her child says horrible thing and the other child has been told to stay away and posters respond that the other parent is unreasonable and shouldn't tell her child to stay away.

The reality is that your DD has done and said things that have upset this girl and the mum is tired of seeing her daughter coming home upset. If you want to talk to her, do so in a way that you are accepting that your daughter's behaviour is likely the issue, not the mum for advising her dd to stay away.

Have you name changed op? If you have, why? It's so annoying as its difficult to see what the op has posted.

Sometimes you tell your kid to blame it on you to limit the blacklash to them.
"So kid says im really upset by so and so and i really dont know what to do."
"Dont play with them. Blame it on me if its easier"

I get the SN thing, i have one at home. But is absolutely true that whilst you hope for understanding that doesnt remove their being consequences for behaviour. Other people have a right to feelings too.

Don't say a word to the mum especially if she's in a clique. You won't change her opinion and the other mums will side with her whether they agree with her on not...because most people are cowards and scared of being ostracized by a group.

They're 7. They ALL say things that are inappropriate.

Also you cant fix everything. Not everyone will like your child however delightful your child is, SN or SN.

I don’t know why you would say she says mean and inappropriate things then change it to say by inappropriate you mean she just speaks about other things that are not related to the conversation. That sounds abit like backtracking to me. I think something has been said and you are now feeling defensive which I do get, I have a daughter with autism and sometimes she said things that aren’t very nice. But I believe something has been said and your child’s friend has gone home and told her mum and now the mum has said not to play with her then. I’ve told my ds not to play with certain kids when he has come out of school saying they have been mean to him. Don’t approach the mum.

We have been on the reverse of this. My daughter is also 7. She struggles to make friends as she has sensory issues, however is polite and very quiet and shy at school. She has connected with one of two. One other girl since nursery has tried to take my girl for herself almost but has been downright cruel is what she has said and how she has behaved - verbally and physically. I have told my daughter too in the last couple of weeks (we've had half term) that she is not to play with this child again (said child has two other siblings in the school who both seems to behave the same, one of which is ASD, one being assessed. The girl is constantly referred to as 'spirited' by the mother). I have made the teachers aware that although they can't control who plays with who in the playground, they can control it in the classroom and my child is not to be sat next to her or in front of her in carpet time. I'm fed up with seeing my girl not sleeping, crying and having what little confidence knocked out of her by someone's 'inappropriate and mean comments'. I completely see this mums point of view as I'm now trying to fix my own girls confidence which she masks at school as she doesn't want to be in trouble with the teachers and cries at home instead. I wouldn't assume it's because the mum in in a clique (although I fully get that does dominate friendship groups in primary as it has my girls class), but rather that the girl has become upset at home.

They're 7. They ALL say things that are inappropriate
There's in appropriate and there's very hurtful. Bullying does happen at that age. Any child has the right to not be at the recieving end of it.

What makes it difficult is that at that age, they don't always have the ability to recognise bullying for what it is and will still want at times to be friends with the perpetrator hence parents needing to intervene.

They want to play together. They are doing, and are doing it nicely, according to teacher.
So what's the problem?
Leave it, do not feed the troll or stir up a hornets' nest and make things much, much worse for your DD. Because that is what you risk.
Teacher will let you know if there is anything you need to know.
This is typical of primary age DCs.

there's inappropriate and then there's hurtful
bullying, ostracism and control of friendships is a whole other issue, as is marshalling groups to fight, persistently harming others, disrupting lessons so others can't learn. And it all goes on all the time, don't be so naive or precious to think your DC will never be involved in a whiff of that at some stage.

Its an important stage of development that DC learn to figure people out for themselves, its a very important life skill. These early years friendships can be fickle even from one hour to the next while this goes on. Meddling mothers can really exacerbate something negligible and cement judgemental attitudes just by not trusting their own DC with the intelligence they're born with to form their own friendships.

I taught mine to always try to find some common ground, but not everyone will like them and they won't like everyone, and that's OK. I offer guidance but I don't actively police their friendships, I don't like all their friends but they're not my friends.

Almost every week there is a thread about teachers not recognising when bullying is going on. There was an argument, teacher said it was resolved, that doesn't mean that it is.

The point is that OP doesn't know why this mum has told her daughter not to okay with hers. Her reasons might be feeble, or they might be serious, we don't know and can't make any assumptions.

Talk to her x

I can see it from the other mums side. Why should we force our children to be friends with people who consistently treat them badly? What is that teaching them about standing up for themselves in later life? I have a bit of a situation with my DS (10) at the moment. One particular child in the class has a really short temper and consistently resorts to fists and kicking. He is a big lad, and has punched my son in the face and whacked him across the face with a hardbacked book in the past. Said child is the child of a friend. It's very awkward as my son doesn't want to be friends with his kid any more. I'm not going to force him for the sake of our friendship. I won't force him to be friends with a child who hurts him.

She can say mean and inappropriate things at times

I'm afraid I told my son not to play with a boy who was doing this a few years ago. But the reason was not to be mean, it was because this boy kept saying really horrible things to my son and I didnt want him to be affected by it. I felt sad for the boy but its not my responsibility to teach him appropriate behaviours. Its his parents. I'm sorry but I'm not having my son continually told inappropriate things just to appease the boy's parents. Noone is obliged to be friends with anyone and I think thats a bit of a dangerous message to send to our kids.

My DD is the same age and will often say 'such and such wasn't very nice to me today' and I have asked her before why she just doesn't play with one of her other friends if the other is being mean to her and have probably said on occasion, "just don't play with her if she's being mean, play with one of your other friends".

This girls mother may have said similar and she's (the child) sticking to what was said. It's made me reconsider what my DD may understand from my comments now as I'd hate her to be saying 'I'm not allowed to play with you' when that's not what I meant. It could be something similar.

I'd also be aware that this is a conversation relayed via 2 7 year olds.

It's quite possible that the friend's conversation with mum went something like

(Girl) ellieboolous' DD was annoying me/being mean/was making up stupid rules to the game today

(Mum) If other children are annoying you, you don't have to play with them, just go and play with someone else

... could easily translate into "My mum says I can't play with you"

Unfortunately if your dd is saying horrible things the other girl’s mum is within her rights to put a stop on the friendship. ASD or not your dd doesn’t have the right to make another girl feel bad about herself.

I’ve told my dd to stay away from a girl in her class as she’s been saying nasty things to her. We’ve had lots of tears at home as dd tells us what the girl has said, including “you’re stupid” “your coats ugly” “i hate you.” Yes they don’t sound too bad, but dd was so upset about the coat, it was brand new and she was showing a friend, this girl then came over and said it was ugly, cue other kids laughing.
I’ve told dd to stay away and not to talk to her.

You would choose to take This to the school teacher, I and this mother don't feel the need to concern a teacher with friendship politics. I'd tell a child not to socialise with certain children if I could see it was causing aggro, and leave it be.

Teachers are busy enough that's not everything needs to become some drama.

I could also be this mother, the child in question was undermining mines confidence so much that I had to step in. If they were racing and my daughter won the other girl would sulk so my daughter would let her win then she would insult my daughter and call her slow etc. It's tiny little things but they added up to an insecure and upset little girl. The issue is resolved now but I did have to put a block on them playing for a bit (also had to complain to the school about making my daughter her peer learning support)

Some friendships are just not healthy

I know you don't want to have a spat and it doesn't have to be, but you are your child voice and if something is upsetting her I would want to find out more, but you're probably not going to like that you hear.

I wouldn't talk to the other mother - she has already been inappropriate by not speaking to the school but instead banning her daughter from playing with yours. Now maybe the school was told but didn't respond, or didn't seem to as they also had your DD's confidentiality to consider.

However regardless of how unfair this is you speaking to the mother will most likely do no good.
With my own DD I have at times apologised on her behalf to parents (and explained the ASD), but I would never challenge their decisions. If it resulted in bullying of my child or distress to my child, I would speak to the school. I would also be inclined to kill with kindness - so be very polite and friendly to them.