To think that the world would not be a better place without Heidi *Content Warning - abortion/disability edited by MNHQ*

[bridgetreilly]

Heidi is 24 and has Downs syndrome. She is beautiful and brilliant and very articulate in explaining why the UK abortion law is discriminatory in allowing abortion up to full term where the child has Downs syndrome (and other non-fatal disabilities including cleft palate or club foot), when the standard limit is 24 weeks.

She's not the only one to think that. The United Nations’ Committee on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities’ concluding observations on the initial report of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland made a key recommendation that the UK change its abortion law on disability so that it does not single out babies with disabilities. However, the Government has decided to ignore this recommendation.

Heidi, along with the mother of a young boy with Downs syndrome, is planning to sue the government for discrimination. She is amazing and I hope she wins.

I declined testing, that was my choice.

Others choose abortion that's theirs. I am pro choice.

Just want to add my name to the many who have already said this.

I am pro choice up to a limit. (eg when the baby is actually a viable life. Having given birth at 34 wks I can not imagine anyone aborting at that stage unless incompatible with life)

Headlikefuckingoranges has anyone said that - I can't find it.

june2007 great, that's the right decision for you. I fully support you in it and hope that that means that you can support women who make different choices about their pregnancies than you.

Being pro choice up until an arbitrary point where you think the woman should no longer have a choice, isn’t being pro choice.

@APatchyTomCat that doesn't make sense.

You are saying that every woman ahoukd have a choice.

So if a woman agrees to abortion up until 24 weeks, and doesn't agree with abortion ip until 36 weeks, that is her choice, right?

You are saying that every woman ahoukd have a choice.

So if a woman agrees to abortion up until 24 weeks, and doesn't agree with abortion ip until 36 weeks, that is her choice, right?

Yes, it’s your choice not to have an abortion past 24 weeks. What other women do is not your choice.

And what you agree with can change very rapidly when you’re the one facing test results at 28 weeks saying your baby has a severe heart defect or a severe brain defect, and having to choose between a very traumatic late stage TFMR or continuing for another two months and then delivering a baby who will either die or will require 24/7 nursing care for the rest of their lives.

What circumstances are you imagining when you think of these hypothetical 36 week terminations (and where is your evidence that terminations are actually carried out at this point)?

It annoys me when those of us who have had the awful news that there is something wrong with your baby and that they will either die whilst your pregnant or during birth or later or there lives will be plagued with problems
We are the ones that are looked at as if we are awful people
My daughter has to undergo genetic testing at a later stage to see if she is also a carrier of the same condition that I am a carrier of
And if she is i will support her through every decision she makes with her body
If she chooses to have children or not
And nobody will ever make her feel the guilt that some women will have made.
Even if that means a tfmr at 40 weeks
My two tfmr were 24 and 20 years ago so I have learnt to deal with idiots

@Iris27

angel - are you being deliberately obtuse?

If one woman is uncomfortable with abortion after 24 weeks then that is absolutely her choice for her own body and own life. What isn't her choice, and shouldn’t be, is what another woman chooses to do with hers.

Iris27 you have no reason to feel guilt. You acted out of love for your child. You didn't do anything wrong.

I chose not to have any testing when at the age of 42 I was pregnant with my third child. It was my choice. I would never assume any pregnancy choice for any other woman. The decision to carry or terminate a pregnancy is far too personal for anyone but the woman to act on.

We were told my DS3 was possibly incompatible with life, and advised to terminate, if the worst case came to light.

We were told this at our 20 week scan, which didn’t actually happen until 22 weeks. By the time we’d gone for a second ultrasound with a specialist, who then referred us for an MRI, I was 27 weeks.

Very fortunately, despite having a congenital abnormality which will require his right lung removed, he is perfectly healthy, but if he hadn’t, we would have been given the choice of a late term abortion, or continuing a pregnancy in which my son would suffer painful heart attacks in the womb before ultimate dying close to birth, possibly after. If he did survive he would have been unable to breathe And feed unaided For a long time, and may have suffered substantial health problems growing up.

We thank god everyday we didn’t have to make that choice, but having the choice taken away from us would have been more horrific.

Tunnocks that just sounds horrific. I pray that this attempt at changing the current abortion laws is unsuccessful. The law is there for a reason

Its totally cruel for the babies who'd suffer. For the mum to carry a child knowing it will suffer from the second the cord is cut. What a great job that is - who'd want to do that? Unfair to the HCP who need to try to care for these tiny poorly infants.

Honestly there is something wrong in a country where dogs have more rights than humans.
You'd be classed as cruel if you held onto a dog who was suffering. But humans must suffer to the last breath.
But that's a complete other arguement.

I don’t want the law changed either

Much respect and love for all these women who have made the brave decision to take the pain so that their babies don't have to. I support choice for any woman at any point.

@angell84 I find it very surprising that on the other thread you are declaring that you never want children and that every individual should be able to decide whether or not they become a parent, when in this thread you are comparing people who abort disabled foetuses to Nazis.

I miscarried a DS baby so the choice was not mine to make. But if it had been I know that I would not have had the capacity - financially or emotionally to have been a mother to a DS child. Other women might be happy to do so but for my existing family it would have been disastrous. This Heidi person or whoever is funding her campaign is very disingenuous and needs to stay the hell away from women's reproductive rights.

I am not in favour of any further restrictions on a woman’s right to choose.

I am tired of the arguements along the lines of “what if you aborted Mozart or Einstein” 🙄 or “give the child up for adoption, don’t abort” or “SENS/ disability shouldn’t mean abortion’

Bearing a child isn’t just carrying it for 9 months. I have an adopted SENS child. There are THOUSANDS of kids waiting for adoption, just in Uk, for most it will not happen.

What if a pregnant woman has hopes, dreams, potential that won’t be realised due to a pregnancy she doesn’t want?

Stop finding loopholes to reduce women’s rights over their bodies and prioritise another’s over hers.

Stop finding loopholes to reduce women’s rights over their bodies and prioritise another’s over hers.

That's what it comes down to regardless of the argument.

@angell84 I find it very surprising that on the other thread you are declaring that you never want children and that every individual should be able to decide whether or not they become a parent, when in this thread you are comparing people who abort disabled foetuses to Nazis.

Exactly this. And then you have the cheek to send “love” to a poster describing a heartbreaking situation after you’ve made that hateful comparison. You have a nerve when it’s probably people like you contributing to her feelings of guilt.

we are the ones looked at as though we are awful people @booearing I think that's the minority though, in all honesty. I've been quite open with people about my tfmr, you know work colleagues and such. And to be honest, if they think I'm an awful person, I couldn't give a flying fuck.

I was a bit shocked with the comments a few pages back where people were people arguing all ds babies should be aborted etc. It is an individual's choice either way and should be kept that way.

@Blackbear19 it was a terrible time. Thankfully his tumour stayed benign, and actually reduced in size so that all is required is the lung it is in is removed. Although that in Itself is terrifying because it is happening when he is only 8 months old.

I think a lot of people think a late term abortion is something woman just enter into lightly but we were acutely aware I would have to give birth and we were absolutely terrified. I no doubt would have been traumatised if we had been made to make the choice - whichever choice I made.

@NYCDreaming ffs, again I didn't say that.

I said that the government discriminating against people with disabilities, is something the nazis did. And that is exactly what Heidi said. I never said that about the mothers, don't put words into my mouth.

I said : discriminating against people with disabilities, is something the nazis did. And that is what the UK government is doing.
I said that I want to hear the Opinion of the Down Syndrome community.
I can also feel and send love to a woman who was hurting on here.

Both things can exist. I don't really care what anyone else thinks of me to be honest.

*exactly what Heidi said - is that the government are discriminating against people with disabilities

@Rebelleny but the law states that after 24 weeks it is for medical issues with the baby, so I don't really see your point. People aren't allowed to have abortions past 24 weeks just because they don't want their baby!!