AIBU to ask ‘what would make you go vegan’?

[Bastetcat]

Tangentially inspired by another thread, I wonder if there are specific obstacles standing in the way of people choosing to go vegan, and if so what they are?

I tend to presume that if perfect, indistinguishable replicas for meat / dairy / eggs etc could be created then virtually everyone would go vegan, but I would be interested in finding out if that’s actually the case!

@Bastetcat You’re quoting vegan propaganda there be careful!

in the UK we would struggle to feed ourselves if we could not raise cattle. We simply do not have the right land to grow enough crops for everyone.

Morally though trillions of insects and mammals die a horrible death (often crushed to death) in vegetable farming. I just don’t see a difference between that and slaughter.

Floribundance chickens are omnivores (which is why they have been such a successful animal) so a healthy mix of plants, berries, insects, mice, dead animals they have scavenged is the best diet for them. I don’t think they’d become carnivores but you never know! 😂

Propaganda? But it is footage of actual events. Nothing nice ever happened in a slaughter house.

Bastetat actually that’s factually inaccurate, 60% + of the plants we grow aren’t suitable for human consumption (think roots, leaves, stalks) and that’s the majority of what goes into animal feed. We are already at 40% food waste, think where we would be without the animal cycle.

Plus in the U.K. the majority of cattle feed is grass, which we cant eat and which animals convert to energy. 90% of the water for animals comes from rainfall, they aren’t taking from the water table.

And without animals where does you soil health come from? Chemical fertilisers.

Choose veganism as a privileged position it’s possible for you to make by the abundance of choice you have, by ignoring issues in other countries. Choose it on a moral choice of not wanting an animal slaughtered for you.

But don’t choose it on environmental standards.

I’d never be a vegan. Even with ‘perfect’ substitutes.
It’s not what we were designed to do.
I’ll always support British Farming and the countryside.

I converted to "plant based" a few months back. I don't claim to be vegan because I'm not over fussy about things like added vit D but I haven't eaten anything containing meat or dairy.

I did it because I was convinced by the health benefits and in particular the environmental impact of the beef and dairy industries.

I've found it surprisingly easy. I don't buy any meat substitutes but use beans, nuts and lentils instead and I drink tea black. It actually only took a few days to get used to and now I don't like it with milk.

A bonus side effect is that our grocery bills have been slashed by half!

I have recently become vegan. I changed my diet because I was inspired by a friend who has been vegan for 20 years for environmental reasons - I have replaced cows milk with oat milk but for me it's about trying to make sure that I eat food that is sourced locally with as low a carbon footprint as possible. But while I'm vegan, I do still eat eggs from my sister's free range chickens. So I guess I'm veggan.

I have not read the full thread but becoming vegan is just a matter of time for me.

What really made me think about it was the fact that male chicks are put into macerators to be killed as there is no use for them in our food chain. Admittedly, they are gassed in Britain but in mostly every other place the just drop them into a macerator alive.

It is difficult to turn a blind eye to that.

Unfortunately, it’s true: www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/environment/2017/oct/05/vast-animal-feed-crops-meat-needs-destroying-planet

60% of global biodiversity loss is due to meat-based diets.

It is absolutely not as simple as vegan = environmentally good / meat = environmentally bad. Eating one organic, grass fed steak with seasonal veg is a much less environmentally harmful meal than a quinoa salad with avocado and almonds.

But the facts are clear - we can’t keep eating meat and dairy at the rate we currently are. That doesn’t mean everyone has to go vegan. Lots of people are making a great effort to reduce meat and dairy consumption, and 6 million people doing something good is better than 60,000 people doing the most they can.

@TheMotherofAllDilemmas I hope it is a positive change for you! It has been the best decision I’ve made about my life by far.

I’m going to bed but thank you everyone for a really good, open discussion - it’s appreciated.

I find these threads quite sinister. You’re trying to engage with people to try and convert them. It’s really creepy. People have their own minds.

@FET2020 sorry, but that did make me laugh there is truly nothing sinister about having a relaxed chat on a forum. Perhaps it’s just that your conscience is feeling irritated. Good night!

Nothing. I rarely eat meat. What I do eat is of a high standard (bacon from a pig that has been outdoor reared as opposed to farmed indoors etc). In my ideal world I'd like to see us all eat less AND only eat vegetables that were grown in this country.

Nothing I’m an onmnivore and you can’t convince me that locally reared meat have more impact on the planet than the air miles of oilers, grains, jackfruit, avocados etc that make up a lot of vegan foods. I roll my eyes when people say being vegan is better for the planet unless they are eating locally grown food.

Nothing worse than someone who is evangelical, this thread is a bit like a creepy JW knocking on my door. Annoying, persistent and misinformed.

My conscience is fine thank you but you would say that because you’re trying to convert me into your cult 😂

Nothing.

Preachy stuff doesn’t help anyone but I think open discussion is good. Especially with new trade deals with the US looming, it’s good for people to think about what food they want to eat. If you are going to eat meat then British farmed meat is better for animal welfare and environmental impact than imports. I think valuing the meat you eat is important too. It does take a lot of resources to produce it and the lowest £/kg shouldn’t be the only concern when you don’t have to eat it at every meal and there are cheap, nutritious alternatives out there.

FET2020 imagine being so delicate that you are offended by group of people who don't want to hurt animals....

and the lowest £/kg shouldn’t be the only concern

Says who?
Budget is a top concern for many

We may not HAVE to eat every meal but the alternatives to meat just dont cut it. Beans, lentils, tofu just dont satisfy like meat does so it makes more sense to have meat, something that will be enjoyed and eaten, not just pushed round a plate and thrown out.

Cheap or well priced also includes what will get eaten or not. Its cheaper in long run to buy food i know will be liked over spending extra time cooking, prepping and shopping something that more than likely will go to waste.

If I was dying and my doctor said I had to go vegan to save myself. If not that - nothing.

Nothing at all could make me go vegan. I enjoy eating meat and other animal products. My husband and son love their steaks and bacon butties. I also wear leather products.

I am conscious about buying organic products and I look for animal welfare stamps on packaging. But that really is as far as I am willing to go.

You don’t get 18 month old bullocks from dairy herds. They’re shot or sold as veal calves

Your information is decades out of date. That's what happens when you only look at propaganda on the internet rather than talking to real people in the actual farming industry.

Dairy bullocks do have a market in the beef industry these days. They don't have the same fat or marbling as a beef bred bullock but they have a market in the cheap 'sandwich steaks', lean steaks, frying steaks, beef stir fry mixes etc. It's one area where price over quality/flavour/taste has actually had a positive impact on farming practises.

Also, as an aside, I’m not too worried about trade deals with the US bringing American produced meats here. I spend up to around 8 weeks in the US each year and shop at Walmart, Target and Publix etc. The meat is very well labelled and again it’s very easy to look for the organic and free-range varieties. It’s not all poor quality, chlorinated stuff, which I steer clear of for welfare reasons.

I could manage a vegan diet - I've had periods of eating plant based & don't eat much meat at all, but struggle with alternatives to milk for coffee (I've tried Oatly barista too) and chocolate. Obvs those aren't the end of the world, so I could cut down & allow myself those. But I would struggle to eschew animal products for shoes & clothes. And I have quite a lot, which, rightly or wrongly, I'm not willing to get rid of (sheepskin, leather... not mink!).