Family Inheritance troubles

[Starfish75]

I really need some advice here as this is totally stressing me out. Basically, I purchased a house with my dad, 50/50. I lived in it & paid all bills as one would expect as well as my half of the mortgage. My dad also paid his half of the mortgage but not any bills as he lived elsewhere. Anyway, I have since moved out of that house, moved in my hubby and rented that out.

In recent discussion with my brother, he was talking about my dad’s houses (he has a few) and that dad needs to sort out a will. Anyway, towards the end of the call he casually drops in “what are you going to do with your half of the house?” And went on to tell me what he’d do with his half. He was talking about the house I brought with my dad!! I was so shocked at this & made excuses to leave the call.

I would never in my wildest dreams think my dad would leave his half of our house to him! He may be the only son but that seems totally batty to me! Not to mention so unfair.

Since then I have asked my dad about it and he says he has no plans with his half at the moment & doesn’t want to make any decisions. I offered to buy him out as I really don’t want to be sharing that house with my brother. All he could go on about was that he’d invest his half in another property. Yet I have no plans to sell it! And saw that house as my future for retirement or to help find my children.

I can’t force my fathers hand on this but just so stressed and cross at my brother to even think it’s ok for him to have my house!

I’m sorry this is so long but what do people think of this situation? does anyone have any experience on this or advice on what I should do?

I’m so worried. I try to put it out of my mind but it seems to be on repeat in my head. I’ve never spoken to my brother about it since.

*your

My father died just before Christmas and I have been helping with his probate. There is nothing distasteful about thinking ahead to what might happen and trying to prevent future issues.

From personal experience on my husband’s side of the family, I can also categorically say that it is better to sort things out well in advance to avoid bitterness after a death.

I also find this whole thing very distasteful TBH. My Mum died some while ago, and it has taken me a long time to come to terms with it )only child)! I dont think worrying about what may happen to his money when he is fit and well is at all attractive ! What if he lands up in a care home ,or decides to leave everything to charity?.Many wealthy people decide to do just this ! I would enjoy your Dad while he is alive and well ,and view any future inheritance as a gift!

Itwasntme1

Newkitchen123 so sorry for your loss.
Read the post properly. Newkitchen hasn't lost her dad yet, but is about to which makes the subject more distressing to them as he is still alive.

Inheritance does sometimes need to be discussed, particularly where there are jointly owned assets.
I agree but the time to do it is when you acquire the joint asset.

However there is nothing disgraceful about considering what will happen to a jointly owned asset once one owner dies. It is common sense, and most business owners and families estate plan.
Surely the conversation should be between the OP and her father though as if is their joint asset. It isn't the business of the OP's brother.

I think you are being a bit unfair.
I don't.

With all due respect @Dottiedodah, that’s very easy to say when you’re an only child and everything is simple and straightforward. I was too but I still put pressure on my parents to make wills and arrange powers of attorney. You have to think ahead.

Check out the tenants in common v joint tenants thing

This.
If you are then due to get the half your father currently owns automatically in the event of his death, it would seem that you have nothing to worry about. However, I would quietly seek legal advice to reassure myself that that is a water tight fact.

If you're not entitled to the other half then you need to speak again to your father, with a view to either selling it or buying his share, or alternatively accepting the status quo and that quite simply, you only own half the house at this point.
Has your father been contributing to 50 % of the repairs and maintenance of the house? Does he currently receive a portion of the rental income?

Honestly you're being ridiculous, it's not an inheritance problem when the person is still alive and has given no indication that they plan to leave their assets in this way.

That being said, firstly it's not 'your' house. It's half yours and it sounds like you've already benefited plenty from your Dad's investment by living in it rent free, are you splitting the rental income with your Dad now?

Secondly, you seem to be assuming that what your brother assumes will happen is what will happen, whereas your Dad seems to have given no indication that is the case.
Does your brother even know/remember you own half the house? Are you sure he meant half that house rather than half a different house/ half the overall estate (assuming you only have one sibling)?

Your Dad doesn't even have a will at the moment so, assuming he's not married, what would generally happen would be the estate would be split equally between his heirs. Depending on what kind of a share of the estate the other half of 'your' house is that would either mean that could form part of your share or that yes it would have to be shared with your brother.

Even if your Dad left all of his estate to your brother, your half would still be your half and if your brother would invest the money in property anyway you could either keep the house as a joint investment, buy your brother out or sell and reinvest your share in another property, either way you can still use your investment to fund your children. If you don't own the house in such a way that you'd automatically inherit your Dad's half in his death why would you assume you would? That's really you at fault.

If your Dad does make a will what would be 'fair' would again depend on how many people he's dividing his assets between and the relative value of the half-a-house to the rest of the estate and the house he's bought your brother. (And any other gifts he's given you i.e. his share of the rent on his hair of the house for X years + any other considerations such as one of you having a greater need due to disability or something)

It is irrelevant what we think, the facts are your dad/parents owns 1/2 the house and it is their decision who to leave it too. Sound shit if he leaves it to your db, but all you can do is 1) tell him your concerns and wait and see what he does, 2) ask/force a sale of the house and invest elsewhere or 3) ask to buy him out

You need to accept this is not 'your investment', it is not your house. it is 'you and your parents joint investment' and they have as much right to decide what to do with their half as you do, if you are not happy with what they decide to do with their half, you made your own decisions on your half.

How exactly is it registered? If it is joint with right of survivorship then whoever outlives the other gets the house. If it is joint with no rights, then his HALF will be split between you and your brother, giving you 3/4 of the house and your brother 1/4. Might it not be cheaper to wait and buy out your brother?

I think that GeorgiaGirl is spot on with this. Find out what the jointure is - you may need to protect the half you own. ((Not sure how it could be done.)

While your dad can do what he likes with his own property/ assets, I think that both he and your brother are being a pair of gits regarding this.

Could your brother just be winding you up? Some people like "jokes" like this one.

If you stand not to inherit the house outright, or feel you won't want to buy your brother out, perhaps you should be looking to see now and re-invest your half.

You need an honest conversation with your dad. If you share ownership of a house you are well within your rights to want to know what he plans to do with his share when he dies - in fact you are mad to have not already had this discussion before effectively going into business with him.

OP said her dad had left a house to ONE of her brothers, so it may not necessarily be the same one.

But regardless OP your dad owns half the house, and so I imagine when he dies his half would be split amongst his children so if say he has 3 kids then you will have your 50% plus a third of the remaining half. Not rocket science and I don't know why you would expect to own the whole thing on his death unless you had something written in at the time of the purchase. Is there life assurance on this naming a beneficiary if anything happens?

Find out what the jointure is - you may need to protect the half you own. ((Not sure how it could be done.)

DH and I have just updated our wills and one of the things we changed was the jointure. Our solicitor dealt with all the paperwork for this, but obviously we both had to agree, Not sure what would have happened if DH hadn’t wanted to change.

I think it's very poor advice to share any investment with your brother, or put yourself in a position where you have to buy your brother out. Your brother sounds entitled and grabby and I think it's highly unlikely he'd be fair or reasonable about any investments going forward.

I can completely understand why it's a blow to you, after gifting your brother a house, that your father won't clarify his future intentions regarding yours. If I were you I'd want to get things sorted now and sell the house and buy your own investment property. Whatever he says about the will, he can change his mind later (or be persuaded to by your brother) and it's a nightmare to try and sort property out with unreasonable relatives (voice of experience). They can be difficult by stalling, demanding things their own way, making you do the admin but then complain about how it's done. It's very stressful.

Your dad should have sorted this when you purchased the property. I have the house I live in bought with my husband.

DS1 I gave him the deposit for his house he bought when he was 21.
DS2 was23 and despite my offer of help and advice still hadn’t got on the property ladder and house prices here were rising very fast. So after I inherited some money I suggested we bought a house together. We did this.
When we purchased it I had a clause written in so if I die DS 2 has his half and then the other half is split four ways between my children. DS2 will own half the house plus a quarter of the other half so will have the choice. He bought another property recently and DS 3 is living in it on a reduce rent so he and I cover the mortgage. He has been offered the chance to buy DS2 out. DD isn’t in a position to buy anything yet but I have money put aside to help Ds3 and DD. In the meantime they will receive some from the house. I haven’t made a Will yet but realise I need to do that as your father does.

Inheritance does sometimes need to be discussed, particularly where there are jointly owned assets
Why does it have to be discussed? In any case, it's not being discussed here, it's being argued. I agree totally with Newkitchen.

Nothing to add other than I share your pain and then some!
FIL died 5 years ago and the legal arguments are only now just drawing to a close.
FIL was very controlling and did leave a Will. However there was also a Trust and other stuff that wasn’t and so all that had to be sorted out.
It’s ended in 3 Siblings who can’t bear the sight of each other.
My advice is to get your house in order whilst your DF is still alive and salvage your relationship with your DB.

Okay this is getting nasty. I was merely trying to explain why many estate lawyers encourage clients to discuss wills before they create family discord.

I have clearly and unintentionally cashed offence so I will bow out of this thread.

And for the record I completely disagree with Newkitchen. I'm sorry about their dad, but it's irrelevant to the OPs situation, which is about saving herself stress and worry in the future when she might be grieving as well.

The thing is, is that some of people's angst about inheritance is not just about the money though is it? The edges get blurred when favouritism comes into it. In a way I count myself lucky because my parents had no money, so it was never an issue. However, if they had had money and my siblings and I at the time were all financially equal, and they didn't leave us equal amounts I would feel hurt. If one or both of them were still alive and told me I wouldn't be getting anything or much less tbh I would cut them out, because MOST of the time that sort of thing does come down to favouritism.

If everything has to be completely equal, db would only get a quarter of the house. Df would be leaving one half (of his half of the house) to the brother and half to the op, so she should own 75% of it, surely?

Op, you'd be better off leaving it until the time and buy your brother out at 25%, instead of buying your dad out at 50% now.

Ask your dad to sign over his half as he’s done with your brother. Are you of a culture which prioritises sons as you seem to imply?

Itwasn'tme you have done nothing wrong. MN is weird about inheritance as lots of people believe that you must be unloving if you express any concern about how property arrangement might impact you and your siblings when a parent dies. The saddest thing is siblings falling out after a parent dies when it might have been averted. You can love your parent very much but still want some clarity to avoid problems.

I can’t believe that you and your father would buy a house together without

1. Discussing what would happen if one of you died or wanted to buy out the other
2. Writing wills

Especially as this was clearly a business arrangement, as you both own properties.

You have both been unwise to say the least and your solicitor is poor not to have sorted this out with you. Your father clearly has had legal advice if he’s just transferred one of his other properties to your brother.

Stop discussing this with your brother, OP, he’s done nothing wrong. The people who need to sort this out are you, your father and a solicitor.

Do it now, this won’t going to go away.

Your second post should have been included with the OP. That makes it easier to say YANBU ... as your dad has given, with no contribution from your brother, a house.

Not unreasonable to expect he could at least gift you HALF the same ... you were required to contribute half towards a house, your brother nothing ... of course he should leave the rest of that particular house to you.

How many siblings are there?
Is your Dad married?
If he dies intestate his estate will be shared equally between his children if his wife is already dead.
You'd keep the half of the house you own and the other half would be split so you'd get a part of Dad's half too. You could then buy out the other siblings. Or if there are several properties the total estate would be divided up fairly and you might get Dad's half and therefore less of the other assets.
If he writes a will and leaves everything to his male sons then you could buy them out of their half of the house. Or sell the property and get the money for your half back which you could reinvest.

It's tough but you can't force your father to do anything and he can write his will anyway he chooses. You'll have to face this when it happens. You're living with your DH now (are you contributing to the mortgage on that house?) so hopefully the two of you are building up your own marital assets. Your immediate housing needs are secured and you have an investment of half a house which no one can take away from you no matter what happens with the other half.
And you have your Dad alive which is more than a lot of us have.