To think that most people voted to leave the EU to stop freedom of movement?

[Moomin8]

The proposed new rules the government have supposedly set out that are designed to keep out 'low skilled' workers seem to me like social cleansing. Most recently , when people moan about 'immigrants' they are always talking about people from Eastern Europe in my experience.

What really annoys me is that almost all leaver voters deny repeatedly that their vote had anything to do with the fact they wanted freedom of movement stopped.

Sorry if this has been done to death. But why won't people just be honest?

HelgaHere1 Now you’re being a bit daft. There are 90, 000 Care sector vacancies in England alone on any day. The number of unemployed stands at 1.29 million currently. Given many unemployed would not be eligible for care work then there’s still a bit of a gulf to be filled. I think it’s a third of the unemployed have criminal records mean they would not be able to fill care vacancies. That’s about 800,000 potential recruits for 90,000 vacancies- assuming all go into care.
Where are the ‘Cannot get a job in care industry despite being entirely suitable and motivated?’

Where are the queues of U.K. nationals wanting to be farm labourers?

Theres a chicken factory near me that's almost entirely staffed my immigrants, well, on the factory floor, the offices are all British. Basically if you want a job in this factory you can have one, you can do flexible hours, term time only, school hours, nights, whatever, they always need staff and have tried everything to recruit locally people. They also pay well above the minimum wage. I've also heard some of the immigrants have been verbally abused in the street for 'taking our jobs'.

The head of HR explained to me once why they can't recruit locally by saying "nobody grows up dreaming of working in a chicken factory ".

@frumpety
Basically everywhere
Midlands, South (London), Scotland
Belfast
During the 10yrs I worked as a subcontractor for 3 very different contractors. ( construction sites, shopfitting also bespoke joinery shops)

CherryPavlova I have no easy answers to how we can work together but a start would be trying to understand the very real concerns about people who voted differently - not trying to shout them down, blame them or crow over a "victory".

Improve the pay and conditions of the workers who do all the jobs "UK workers don't want to do". Show much greater respect towards those jobs, improve the training given. Better for EU workers who choose to stay, better for UK workers who want to work. But there is no easy option. (Anyway Endeavour has started on ITV so I'll be back in the morning)

(Sorry Cherrry was not accusing you of shouting down - just answering the question about what could be done to improve things)

So the contractors were looking to make the maximum profit they could from a job ? You need to pay a mortgage and feed a family and so pitch at one level and someone else who is living in a HMO is pitching at another level ? Doesn't make them better, just cheaper, yes ?
And yet , the person to blame is the person in the HMO, who is foreign, not the greedy contractor who is probably from the UK ? That will be the same contractor who is still ringing you with work now ?

The head of HR explained to me once why they can't recruit locally by saying "nobody grows up dreaming of working in a chicken factory ".

And Polish and Latvian kids do?

Dreams and vocations aside, most of us end up doing whatever pays the bills the best, within our capabilities and limitations.

Working in places like abattoirs is never nice but if the money is right they will come. It’s all relative.

Where I used to live there were people from India and Nepal who had left their families behind to stand in burning hot car parks all day hoping to wash shoppers’ cars at 3 quid a pop, a large chunk of which would go to their company sponsor. I doubt they did more than four or five each per shift as there were always far too many of them working a small area. Or working as toilet attendants in hotels, or cleaners etc. They probably made in a month what dH and I could spend on a good weekend out. It was worth it to them compared to the lack of opportunity or decent pay at home. Whereas the local population quite literally would not get out of bed for less than 100k a year, because they are so well looked after by their rich government who only spend money on looking after their own, that they would see it as demeaning to have anything other than a well paid job for life, with retirement at 50 on final salary pension.

It may be an extreme example but it really puts into perspective the disparity of earnings from country to country. I’ll never forget reading on a Facebook page for the city I lived in, an Indian chap asking how much he needed to earn to have an okay life there and still have plenty to send home to his family. . Another Indian replied ‘to have the equivalent of middle to upper middle class lifestyle at home you’d need to earn XXX a month here.’

That XXX was about 450 quid. Now admittedly his idea of upper middle class may not be ours, but even so...

Who used to process the chickens in the UK before the Eastern Europeans came? Who used to pick the crops? Who used to mop floors and push the hospital trolleys? Wait tables in chain restaurants as coffee shops? How come we suddenly don’t HAVE enough people who are willing or able to do these things? Where did they all go?

CherryPavlova, in your first post you said We voted remain to protect our local rural community as well as to protect our children’s futures - and I pointed out that that works if your children aren't the careworkers or farmworkers the jobs you said the immigrants do.
Your next post implied that the immigrants are needed as they were physios, doctors.
You finished your statement saying all you can do is wait for the opportunity to vote us back in. Hardly moving forwarded .

I feel the world remainers are fighting for is about to change rapidly.
So much debate is about imports and car parts when, with the earth environmentally precarious, the LAST thing we need to be doing is building stuff. Especially millions of cars, or clothes, or stuff to clutter our homes with.
We in the west should lead the way in changing our lives to less car use, less flying, less plastic etc etc This needs dramatic change in lifestyle but the EU and everyone else seems to choose to remain oblivious to this.
Remain or leave is a trivial squabble in the greater scheme of global warming. That's where we should be putting our efforts. If it isn't already too late.

HelgaHere1.
Indeed the small world created by leave voters is about to change rapidly. It’s not a place I relish moving towards. I have no intention of moving on or forwards to something so clearly not in the best interests of the majority. I don’t see it as a forward move. It’s a very retrograde step. We do need immigrant workers at all levels to fill the voids our own ageing population cannot or will not. That is farm workers and doctors. Teachers and taxi drivers.

You’re changing the discussion to environmental issues. Do you really think a financially motivated cabinet is about to give two figs about the environment? We are much more likely to have a positive impact on global outcomes from with the EU. Stronger together! !

I have lived in various parts of the world , not the Eu- I have to admit I don't understand the desperate need to be part of Europe. But then I'm a long way from the channel, I can't just hop on a train.

I think it’s a third of the unemployed have criminal records mean they would not be able to fill care vacancies

Maybe that's something that needs to change. Is it really proportionate to stop someone from working in a care home who has a spent shoplifting conviction, or even something like peeing n public when they were 19? I've always said that criminal records checks need to be more specific and only show up convictions that actually matter like violent and sex crimes (I realise you don't want fraudsters working in care homes but a balance needs to be found).

Remain or leave is a trivial squabble in the greater scheme of global warming. That's where we should be putting our efforts. If it isn't already too late True. But in that case it's a pity we wasted our efforts on Brexit, instead of working within the EU to reduce emissions and pollution and improve the circular economy.

Immigration has created the ‘need’ for housing, destroying our countryside. The population was stable before. The more people you import the more you need.

@HelgaHere1
I agree that environmental protection should take priority over everything else, even if that means scaling back our lifestyles. Shame the Gov has removed the legal requirement to meet minimum standards from the withdrawal agreement. This doesn't bode well especially considering that many prominent Brexiteers (so the ones now driving policy) are climate change deniers.

leckford perhaps you should be giving British women financial incentives to have more babies if you want the population to go back to being stable. That horse has bolted. We are an aging population.

It's not an unusual policy, most countries have it. I voted to Remain because I see the value immigrants bring both to communities and the workforce; but the real crime is the low pay of such a socially valuable and challenging job such as care work. You might not need many qualifications which is usually the reason spouted for low pay, but it's demanding, you are sometimes required to work shifts over a 24/7 period, and should be better paid with better conditions. Due to the shortages locally they are so overworked it's literally one appointment to another, ridiculous amounts of overtime, and it's exhausting. Also carers who care for a family member should receive more support. Basically plugging the gaps with low paid workers from abroad because we want cheap stuff and they are happy because back home it's a fortune isn't really the way to go, but unless fundamental changes in funding are made there will be severe shortages.

There is a meat factory here which receives a lot of applicants mind, but the more middling jobs struggle to recruit, some depends on the area.

leckford that stability....girls remained in the family home until they married and were under control of their husbands. Divorce was exceptional. You could just as easily argue the demand for housing ruining our country happened because of the exponential growth in single parent households. Nearly two million single parent households - if we went back to the ‘stable days’ that would be whole lot more available housing. Please note I’m not suggesting this is the answer!

I voted to leave for many reasons but I also feel that we can't cope with many more people coming in. We don't have the infrastructure to support it.
We need to be able to support the people that we already have.

There used to be a chicken factory in Norfolk that had a sign outside that said "Boners Required"..... 😁

Bringing in immigrants is a scheme really as they will age too and needcare.

Ponzi scheme - should have been

I've not come across people denying it but, but yes, I thought it was commonly presume a significant chunk of the Leave vote was motivated by anti-immigration views.

Another chunk was the "protest vote". People whose logic was the government favours Remain, the opposition favours Remain, I don't like either of them, so I'm voting against them.

And a, perhaps small, chunk are long-time Eurosceptics.

Given the research released yesterday that we are short of 1 million homes needed for the current population, the country needs to address that rather than allowing it to get worse.

IImmigration has created the ‘need’ for housing, destroying our countryside. The population was stable before. The more people you import the more you need.*

I agree.

Maybe the expats returning from EU as they are no longer entitled to remain can I’ll the care sector jobs? There’s around 250, 000 retired expats living in EU countries; they can come back here to fill the jobs vacated by the Spanish and Portuguese healthcare professionals, no?

Oh wait....they are mainly elderly often with long term health conditions. They’ll need housing and the NHS so they’re not the solution.
That third of unemployed who were prosecuted for ‘minor’ things like theft or urinating in public. They’re exactly the sort we want caring for our frail and vulnerable relatives. Much better an ex offender than a kind and compassionate law abiding Pole who knows right from wrong, no? That’s assuming it minor things and not violence because the truth is a DBS with a twenty year old shoplifting offence doesn’t actually negate you becoming a care worker.