To think #BeKind is rather ironic

[SpokeTooSoon]

Given that Caroline Flack was allegedly a serial abuser.

It’s a personal tragedy for her family. But all these celebs coming out of the woodwork to canonise her and instruct the rest of us to be kind is rather ironic, no?

Personally I don’t think the size of the cut on your head is relevant after your partner has hit you and caused you to ring 999. There may be no scar at all - it is still violence.

Caroline did seem to be a lovely, bubbly, friendly person. But she clearly had ongoing mental health issues and needed professional help, not more media spotlight. That was for her and her loved ones to pursue.

She was facing the end of her career, a criminal record, a public shaming and it was more than she could handle (perhaps more than any of us could handle, I don’t doubt that). I do feel genuinely sad that she felt such desperation in her final moments.

But the response to this has been completely wrongheaded. The hashtag BeKind? When what started all of this was an act of violence? The lecturing of the public to be nicer to celebs on Instagram when all they’re trying to do is show off how much better they are than ordinary mortals. It’s all so self-serving. Social media didn’t kill Caroline Flack. She could have deleted it from her life. She had very specific, concrete reasons to feel desolate at the end - real-world problems that overwhelmed her.

It’s a tragedy in the truest literary sense. The downfall of a great hero by their own flaws.

mint tbh though i dont think most people need telling. Most people are kind, and for me, if i dont have anything nice to say i generally just stay quiet. However, i dont think having an opinion is the same as being unkind, but a lot of people hashtagging #bekind clearly do.

Whats ironic for me is that the people sharing it are generally not kind.

Sick of reading all the "be kind" shite or the " if you feel low, call me anytime.." bollocks.

How about if you know l am feeling shite YOU CALL ME!!

I was really struggling end last year and some friends were fabulous. Other's l don't see for shit... until l see that load of crap posted on FB

I first noticed it when Philip Schofield used it following his grand announcement.

In that context it seemed to mean ‘Don't think critically, don’t question what I’m telling you'.

It feels the same in this context too.

It's all a load of bullshit. Give it's few weeks and people will be back to bitching about other celebs.

At least CF did Pip Schofield a favour by diverting the attention away from him!

Totally agree!! Been bugging me all week!

Yup. One minute they're laying into Flack, she kills herself, then they're all #BeKind, then two minutes later they're laying into this weird No 10 adviser.

I'm not saying either Flack or that demented-incel bloke don't deserve to be criticised. But the way it all blows up, you can't act surprised when they kill themselves.

Essentially the problem is that people are arseholes.

Maybe kindness could have saved her

She had kindness. Her family were 100% supportive and she had a friend staying with her the entire weekend to keep an eye on her. Thats pretty damn kind. Then when the friend popped out she killed herself.
I'm getting sick and tired of people thinking kindness prevents suicide. IT DOESNT. Suicide is a combination of factors and involves complex mental health issues. Its not going to be prevented by someone posting online how wonderful she was. She had deep inner wounds and anger issues- that isn't sorted out by a quick tweet from a stranger. I'm not saying we shouldnt be nice but this idea that its going to stop suicide is absolute BS and it shows to me that people really dont know what on earth they are talking about when it comes to mental health.

Actually being kind is great. Using trite hashtags to virtue signal and purity-police other people on social media when you're probably no kinder than they are is not great.

I think Caroline Flack’s problems ran deeper and for far longer than the public shaming and all the rest she endured in the last months of her life. I do feel very sorry for her as I would for anyone who felt low enough to take their own life.

However, as someone who is a survivor of DV, it’s quite galling that an (alleged- her trial hadn’t started yet) abuser dying has kick started lots of people to tell others to “be kinder”.

This isn’t a swipe at CF or those who knew and loved her, I’m just a bit... uncomfortable about it all.

*Regardless of what brought it about, #bekind is pretty fundamental.

I don’t find it ironic at all*

I don’t know, I think there’s an irony in issuing an instruction that suggests there’s no improvements to be made on the speakers part.

I don’t think I need telling to be kind, maybe I do, no one on here has any way to tell. Hashtagging instructions for other people to behave in a way to make the world a better place seems like an easy way to absolve yourself of any personal responsibility whilst getting to feel good about yourself. Delegation of societal responsibilities.

It’s pretty hollow and meaningless when you look at it like that.

Maybe kindness could have saved her

No. When someone is in that place where they believe that dying is the answer to their problems no amount of kindness will help.

My husband killed himself. He had all the kindness and love in the world but he was ill and could find no other way out. If anyone had suggested to me, or any one or the many people who loved him and tried to help him, that if we were kinder we would have saved him then it would have made things worse than they already were.

Sometimes suicide is not preventable. Sometimes, some people cannot life any longer and they genuinely believe that they are taking a course of action that is the best for them and the people they love. Suicide is complex and no one is to blame. Including the person who has died.

I don’t find it ironic at all

Really? You dont find it a bit weird that people cant be kind without being told to do so by online strangers? That never before has it ever occurred to them to be kind to anyone but as soon as a D list celebrity posts the instruction to "be kind" these people who have never previously been kind before suddenly turn into caring, empathetic humans?

Because I find that weird as hell.

Sometimes suicide is not preventable. Sometimes, some people cannot life any longer and they genuinely believe that they are taking a course of action that is the best for them and the people they love. Suicide is complex and no one is to blame. Including the person who has died.

Perfectly said.

I’m sorry to hear about your husband

Be kind is the new live laugh love

@MimiLaRue I completely agree. If the incident that sparked all this was indeed an episode of self harm getting dangerously out of hand then sadly she was already following a blueprint that put her at high risk for suicidal behaviour.

I have no doubt the legal fallout was the straw that broke the camels back but truthfully, if the self harming was as severe as implied, then this outcome had frighteningly high odds of happening anyway. Personally I think she should have been in some sort of residential support because that’s too much for her family and friends to be responsible for.

If anything this whole horrible story is indicative of a truly broken mental health system.

If anyone had suggested to me, or any one or the many people who loved him and tried to help him, that if we were kinder we would have saved him then it would have made things worse than they already were

I agree and I'm so very sorry for your loss. Its incredibly hurtful and wrong for anyone to imply that if those around suicidal people had just been "kinder" it would have saved them. Thats not how depression works and anyone who has any experience of depression would know this.
Noone is responsible for the choices or actions of someone else, especially when it comes to the ending of a life. If kindness prevented suicide, then treating depression would be as easy as pie and our mental health resources wouldnt be stretched to breaking point by now.

I posted this on another Caroline thread, but I think it’s relevant here too.

I feel so conflicted every time I think about this.

One one hand, it’s beyond sad that a young woman, who had so much going for her, felt like she had no option but to die. That is a tragedy.

On the other hand, all this “be kind” stuff everywhere is making me feel a little uncomfortable. Of course we should be kind wherever possible. But, I’m concerned about the impact of this message on people in abusive relationships. (I know she hadn’t been found guilty, and there is clearly so much more to the story - but the fact is that, in the moment he dialled 999, her boyfriend believed she was attacking him.)
Are people saying you should be kind to your abuser and not call the police / seek justice in case they kill themselves? Threatening suicide is a form of emotional abuse. I’m genuinely worried how victims of such abuse will interpret these messages.

I suppose both things can be true. It is a tragedy she killed herself AND it’s important that victims of abuse feel able to access support. I just don’t think all the speculation and media scrutiny is going to help anyone in this case.

Don't be unkind does say it much better.

Be kind does assume that you should treat everyone kindly. Some people don't deserve it. In the situation someone is being difficult and rude then not being unkind back is a better message than ignoring their bullshit and just being kind to them. The being kind despite people's treatment of you is what creates these people who cannot say no and cannot stand up for themselves which are ironically often criticised on MN.

And there is an irony. Saying there is an irony to this meme after the fact isn't saying they think the treatment of the media was ok or that CF herself was inheritantly and unkind person.

But there is a massive public outpouring of grief for someone most didn't know and along with that a great ignorance towards what her actions most likely were that night based on the evidence given and the subsequent prosecution.

I believe being kind would have been to admit it was a mistake driven by a MH breakdown. What would have been kind was to separate themselves from that person public ally before the cps had to do it. What would have been kind was to seek the medical help needed to prevent it happening again to the same person or others.

Leigh

I was thinking about this earlier after reading a post on Facebook. I can’t remember what it was about now, but someone put a valid, but unpopular, comment on. She was immediately “jumped on” by the fb mobs and called some pretty unsavoury things, brought down a peg or two and swiftly reminded to “be kind”. The fucking irony of all the huns jumping on her as they did because she wasn’t “being kind”.

The irony of people saying this about because someone that wasn't kind has died.
It will be interesting to see if the sainthood sticks. With all the pins/badges, clothes and political petitions that are out there.

The motivations behind the ‘be kind’ movement are founded upon a bedrock of utter hypocrisy, especially when you trace its origins back to a DV incident last December. Generally I find most humans are kind and don’t need told how to behave toward each other. You should not need to be told to be kind to each other, just as you shouldn’t need to be told not to attack your partner. Utter hypocrisy of you ask me.

Interestingly Leigh Francis (Kieth Lemon/Bo Selecta) the man that destroyed another man's career, Has designed a "be kind" T-shirt with CF's face on it and is donating the proceeds to the Samaritans.

So the hypocrisy continues.

Went by Lush today - they have it on the screen in their window.