To think #BeKind is rather ironic

[SpokeTooSoon]

Given that Caroline Flack was allegedly a serial abuser.

It’s a personal tragedy for her family. But all these celebs coming out of the woodwork to canonise her and instruct the rest of us to be kind is rather ironic, no?

Personally I don’t think the size of the cut on your head is relevant after your partner has hit you and caused you to ring 999. There may be no scar at all - it is still violence.

Caroline did seem to be a lovely, bubbly, friendly person. But she clearly had ongoing mental health issues and needed professional help, not more media spotlight. That was for her and her loved ones to pursue.

She was facing the end of her career, a criminal record, a public shaming and it was more than she could handle (perhaps more than any of us could handle, I don’t doubt that). I do feel genuinely sad that she felt such desperation in her final moments.

But the response to this has been completely wrongheaded. The hashtag BeKind? When what started all of this was an act of violence? The lecturing of the public to be nicer to celebs on Instagram when all they’re trying to do is show off how much better they are than ordinary mortals. It’s all so self-serving. Social media didn’t kill Caroline Flack. She could have deleted it from her life. She had very specific, concrete reasons to feel desolate at the end - real-world problems that overwhelmed her.

It’s a tragedy in the truest literary sense. The downfall of a great hero by their own flaws.

xansaf because that reminder is often coming from people who dont have a kind bone in their body! and i think its that its so associated with Caroline (who may well have been kind on the whole - but was due in court for assault) it feels almost hypocritical.

Like its everyone elses fault she committed suicide, and we should all be kind in future to stop anyone else feeling that way, whilst ignoring the fact that she was not always kind herself. It absolves her of any responsibility of her own death. Whilst i dont doubt she obviously had mental health issues, she still chose to end her own life. Nobody else could make that decision.

I think the irony is people are basically bullying others into echoing their rhetoric. Ie if you dare say something negative against a person who was facing charges of domestic violence you’re told you are a nasty person and you should #bekind.

It’s a tragedy when (almost) anyone takes their own life. But I think this is very different to someone apparently beyond Criticism.

People in the public eye have always faced criticism, letters used to be written to smash hits/nme/fanclubs slagging off people, artists would have terrible write ups in papers, patrons would criticise output and withdraw funds. Public figures were parodied in literature and art. Trolling is not a new thing.

I think the trouble is, we have a load of people in the media now who basically survive by being in the public eye rather than having any discernible talent. They rely on the gossip mags/tabloids/social media/reality tv to keep up their basically empty fame. There are so many people famous for being famous.

The trouble arises when their carefully managed media facade slips, the only thing that keeps them famous (ie the media) turns on them they have no actual talent or creative output to fall back on. They are at the mercy of the entertainment editors. Coupled with the fact anyone who chases such empty fame probably has quite a hollow life/something missing inside them they are trying to fill with the fame. The very people who chase such fame are probably the very people least equipped to deal with things going wrong. They have often been exploited by managers/agents/producers along the way believing their own publicity.

Maybe we need to forget the #bekind rhetoric and look to #behonest. Maybe we need to stop building people’s hopes up on programmes like love island, X factor stop giving time of day to these so called “influencers”. Unless you have a lot of talent, work very hard, have an actual output you are basically completely at the mercy of the whims and fashions of others. If you want to enter this ring you really need to have the personality to fight for your position and bounce back from the inevitable dips you will face.

And ITV were planning to have her back for next year’s LI

ITV supported Ant to get back into I'm a Celeb despite being convicted of drink driving and crashing into a family car with a small boy. I don't think ITV are the last word in morality and reputation.

A woman has died and that is sad though

It's rather simplistic and I don't like it because being kind isn't necessarily the best thing to do sometimes. It reminds me of people who don't like to say anything critical. We need sometimes to not be kind if it means that bad behaviour is ignored or indulged for example. We need people to be critical of our politicians, our press.

Being kind to someone will not prevent a suicide.

Some people do not deserve kindness because they are cunts

Or just this.

I agree, OP. And I never liked Flack, I certainly wouldn't wish anyone to harm themselves, but I'm not about to revise my opinion of her now because she has passed away and do not want to support anything associated with her. I didn't like her on SCD, just how she came across as a person to me.

Love Island is often about televising unkindness and an idealised body image which leads to bullying.

I had no idea Flack had a rough time in media/social media prior to the alleged incident with her boyfriend but to me, Love Island is part of the negative aspects of UK society along with the tabloid press and the more tabloidy TV programmes, like the execrable one on ITV in the morning. Paid journalists often come out with the worst comments about people, never mind what people say on social media.

I do think death threats and personal insults are way beyond the pale on social media, but at the same time, fair criticism is ok and freedom of speech should be preserved- not completely unfettered.

But I think, for example you should be allowed to say you don't like someone's work - TV and theatre critics do it all the time, so why shouldn't members of the public? Celebrities need to grow a thick skin about general criticism.

So it shouldn't ALL be about kindness, otherwise we end up with a society in which only meaningless platitudes are allowed. But perhaps if you are going to be critical, we could think how to say it constructively and more kindly.

I never watched LI at all ,but CF seems like a troubled young woman who found the downside of fame hard to handle .She is no longer with us so cannot speak to defend herself .This whole "Be kind" comments are all well and good ,but the Internet can be a very cruel and hard place where people can seemingly say all sorts of things they wouldnt dream of in RL! As someone else said "only say what you would ,if you were standing next to that person!"

People can have an opnion but she's not even been dead a week yet it's a pretty nasty thread s and from personal experience when my dh was charged with assault( I was there so I know that what he was being accused of didn't happen) the CPS had very little evidence other than a statement but still charged ,it was resolved on the day it was supposed to go to trial with the CPS having to accept my dh was telling the truth .

"be kind" is often an attempt to shut up women standing up for their rights.

with respect @x2boys you would say that having had your husband be charged for assault.

It is so very easy to get away with domestic abuse, and imo this caroline flack business is going to make it much easier. Especially if you are a woman.

Thing with AMp though is he admitted to being wrong.

Good people do bad and stupid things. Better people hold their hands up to that and make changes.

I've also been the opposite end.

My son made a report of common assault after having a knife pulled on him during school time. This child had physically assaulted him previously and there was record. The CPs decided it wasn't in the interests to peruse under public interest. I understand as child was 12yo and my ds was 11.
However, again, as seen here - what made me most angry was the fact this child didn't change. Hasn't changed. Is still causing trouble at school 4 years on. Luckily for my ds I got him moved (la wanted it brushed under carpet and I agreed to shut up if I got what I wanted for my ds!).

I know a lot of cps decisions and how they work due to a friend. The cps would not have persued without them believe if it public interest, without believing the risk of escalating wasn't real, they wouldn't have made an injunction without believing there were real risks involved with continual contact (usually it's because they elites coercive control may be inclined) and they could have made a heavier charge (ABH) if their belief of the motives was different.

This is a very tragic case. No one dis believes that. And a tragic case where a 40yo woman felt they could no longer survive in this world.

But it's a case where we need to forget her public figure when considering the legal aspects of it.

She could have continued her career had it been dealt with properly from the off. Whoever her advisors are need to take huge responsibility for this - including her management company who as a response to her death took it upon the,selves to question the CPS rather than the actual actions of their client.

I agree completely, OP.

Incidentally, last night a notification popped up on my Instagram (which I hardly ever use) from a former friend. She'd posted a #bekind picture.

The same 'friend' who when I had my first miscarriage a few years ago and was hospitalized didn't even bother to pick up the phone to see how I was doing and subsequently did exactly the same to another member of our friendship group after she'd escaped an abusive relationship.

I wouldn't normally do this but I'm so incensed by her bullshit that I've been scouring the internet for a suitable quote to respond with.

@AlleAusLiebe
I hear ya,
I think #amnesiac or #fairweatherfriend should do the job.

Hmmm I don't see the BeKind hashtag as anything other than a request for everyone to stop and just really think before posting.

Yes her death started it and there is some irony in it if she did truly commit domestic violence, once or a hundred times - however it's a little depressing to think so many people are ready to poo poo a good idea because they're continuing their judgement of a situation they were neither in or privy to the completely details of.

I think the BeKind movement is more about if you've nothing nice to say then have a think about whether it needs to be said at all and if so are you prepared to accept some of the potential fall out from it.. some of the examples of which .. being gender critical can and is with occasion done with succinct, factual and carefully worded intelligence that makes sense and isn't said with any intent other than to educate and inform others of one stand point on a largely misunderstood issue.. however sadly .. it's largely used as a platform to bully and belittle and harass..

I don't think anyone is being expected or asked to be kind about Caroline flack in regards to her personal issues around the time of her death .. I think we're all just simply being asked to just be more considerate, aware of the damage our words can do and if we really insist on using those words knowing they may cause harm, owning that and having accountability.

Being gender critical is used to bully and harass?
#waxmyladyballs

Imagine criticising a 'Be Kind' message. Only on MN. Regardless of how it the message has come about, it is a good reminder to people that someone somewhere is struggling. Being kind doesn't mean you have to excuse people's behaviour

Some of you could perhaps take a step back, remember the #BeKind message and look at what you write on some of these threads

Yep, be kind and shush now

I feel the same. I am fed up with all the #be kind on Facebook and the constant tagging into photos.

I have people on my friends list who have never displayed any behaviour which I would class as 'kind' and they are posting it everywhere.

If you are a truly kind person you wouldn't be bragging about it. It would be a way of life.

Instead of constantly brainwashing my daughter into being kind, l tell her it is more important to not be unkind...big different in my opinion. The times l have put myself out to help others that have needed it have been thrown back in my face so would rather just be neutral.

Yes I can get behind don't be unkind!

Everything has to be reduced to a bloody hashtag these days. Hash this, hash that. It makes a bloody mockery of things.

Don’t be unkind is much better. I like the neutrality of it.

I don’t really ‘do’ social media other than MN and from the outside it’s bizzare how utterly insidious it really is. It’s here to stay though and there definitely a requirement for a shift in how people consider it, especially with regards to well known people. We’re all allowed an opinion (god knows I’ve got plenty!) but it’s cowardly how people will seek out an individual to write something they’d never say to their face.

I don't do Twitter but on Instagram there's the usual influx of people jumping on the grief bandwagon who hardly knew Caroline or had tenuous links with her.
Respect the friends and family who really did know her and were with her near the end.
I find that irritating. Who are we to speculate what happened?

I remember Montana Brown ( ex Love islander) being very vocal about being kind on TV and social media after the death of Mike Thalassitis.
She did a very passionate eulogy and then a few weeks later was back on the LI spin off show or whatever talking about how one of the islanders was ugly. She really ripped into him.

I don't need lectures on how to be a decent person from shallow hypocrites.

Regardless of what brought it about, #bekind is pretty fundamental.

I don’t find it ironic at all.