To think there are so many men who don’t want responsibility for anything?

[Notcontent]

There are so many threads on mumsnet about men who not only do not want to do any housework, childcare, etc but also don’t want to be financially responsible for their families - so expect their wives/partners to fund maternity leave from own savings, or SAHM who have no money for anything, etc.

I wonder if we have a growing generation of men who just want to be free to do what they want and somehow go along with concept of having a partner and children but don’t actually want to take responsibility for any part of it.

My theory for why this is happening is that, as a society, we are now free from many of the expectations that existed in the past (which is good in most ways) and so people feel like they free to do as they please a lot more - but ultimately that has to change when we have commitments like children - and women obviously step up to the task (in most cases) but then get stuck in this impossible situation of not having anyone to share the responsibility.

I agree. That's partly why I married a man from a more traditional and family oriented macho culture.

I know several women who are both the main earner and the default parent.

I'm not sure it's a new thing. So many men see basic adult tasks like cooking, cleaning, life admin and looking after your own kids as 'woman's work'. Actually, they dont even see it as work, to them it's just what women are for, and none of it has any real value. And many women excuse it with bullshit about how men are just 'different' and they just dont 'see' dirt and mess, as if you cant possibly expect better from them

So a guy who wont do child care?

For men, I think you can read 'people'. Plenty of women don't want to take responsibility either.

You want someone who takes responsibility in both finances and childcare surely?

I agree. I think some not all, want it all but don't want to have to do anything to keep it. No thought for anyone but themselves.

There are so many threads in MN about men who have no sense of pride, basically. They want to have their their cake and eat it - ie they no longer feel compelled to financially provide (look at all the women with separate finances who are effectively expected to support themselves through maternity and beyond). Yet they don’t step up domestically either. This is partly why I married a man from a different cultural background where providing for your family is not seen as optional because the impact on a woman of having children is still recognised.

By the time you're in your fifties, you've worked out that there are a few lovely blokes who step up, take responsibility and are a real joy to have in your life.
A few.
The majority however are more trouble than they're worth, hence the rise in the 50/60 plus age group of women walking away and filing for divorce.
I have yet to meet a divorced woman over 65 who will entertain the idea of living with a man again. They say there's nothing in it for them.

I think this refers to people actually
I suppose it is a natural consequence of modern life
However while I would expect my DH to support me if required and vice versa I am very happy to generally support myself and would hate to be reliant on a man (or anyone)
Am bringing up my DC on this basis

I actually think the situation has got much better. I am in my late thirties and knew of many of my friends fathers who were absent, bone idle or uninvolved and felt they deserved a medal if they pushed a hoover around every two weeks. Now I feel that men step up fairly well. Some will still be big kids sometimes and be a bit scared of housework, but most of them actually want to spend time with their kids! I also hear more about women not wanting the responsibility now.

I think it is less socially acceptable to be an absent parent, bad parent or not take responsibility than previous years on both sides. I think we are a generation that over-think things and could probably do with being a bit more relaxed.

You have to remember MN isn't the real world. Everything is filtered or exaggerated, and their are trolls and fantasists about too.

There certainly seems to be a rise in it. Fathers who think incomes are pocket money and not to be frittered away on their children’s needs.

It’s hard to know how prevalent it is!

And people don’t always post about the food.

Good!

Yes on mumsnet you generally hear the bad stories

I didn’t mean my post to be sexist in any way. I know there are plenty of women who not perfect! It’s just that when you add children into the equation most women (not all) will, almost by default, shoulder responsibility for everything.

I agree with @pallasathena and i'm in my mid forties. Very few of them want the responsibility of anything. The father of my child left quite happily knowing i'd struggle to bring up our son with additional needs with the type of job/shifts I have. Didn't give a shit. It's a common tale everywhere. I'm done spending my time trying to please a man sexually on a regular basis, cook, clean for them, bring up their child etc etc. And before someone slates me for that, it's what you end up doing despite putting up boundaries. I don't want to live in a shit hole so therefore you end up doing most of the housework. There is literally nothing in it for me. I find fellas exhausting and draining on top of doing everything else. Most of them are bone frickin idle selfish sex addicts. No thanks.

I have yet to meet a divorced woman over 65 who will entertain the idea of living with a man again. They say there's nothing in it for them

I completely agree with this. I’ve said for a long time that if I was widowed that would be the end of men for me. Life’s too short.

YANBU.
Endlessly surprised by what (mainly) women will put up with in their relationships regarding finances, co-parenting, housework, etc. And what pisstakers some men are!!

I think it's a threefold issue, and some people may take offense to my thoughts but I think it's the truth.

1. We're showing positive reinforcement of their behaviour. If you're working full time, paying half (or more) of the bills, managing childcare, carrying the mental load etc and all you do is moan a bit when he doesn't step up, all you're doing is reinforcing that you'll keep on doing what you're doing and he doesn't need to change because yuo've accepted him like that.

1. Women are giving the milk away in the name of being 'independent' or 50:50. If you're doing all of the above and you're not married (dear Lord!) Then he knows he's got the upper hand and if you nag him too much he can leave for the next young thing who doesn't have any kids, yet.

1. Men want to be seen as the provider and to be useful to their families. If you're the breadwinner, or are paying more than 40% of the bills, he feels emasculated because he's not doing his duty. To a lot of men wifework is also emasculating and if you're nagging him to do that too, then ti's a double whammy.

I reckon more traditional minded men are less likely to shirk their responsibilities, but in this age of feminism it's easier for them to walk away.

My RL experience is that most parents, male or female, take responsibility. Be that working, doing housework or being active parents. They do it because they love and value their children. They aren’t perfect. But they do far more parenting than generations before. I sometimes think a bit too much.

The ones who don’t are few but equally male and female. In most cases, I think they exhibit forms of psychopathy. Not extreme but they are certainly very self centred and self absorbed. They tend to be obsessed with their own sense of injustice to the detriment of their children’s needs.

I can’t form opinions based on stories on social media, even MN. There are too many trolls and lets be honest we are just hearing one side of the story. Which is often disingenuous to say the least.

Women can be the same

I don't care if some adult men want to behave as children all their lives. The sad thing is that some women have their bar set so low they have relationships with them and make it ten times worse by having children and then come on here and complain about them. It's not like they have suddenly morphed into useless arseholes, they've never been any different.

A lot of these women, once free, vow never to live with a man again - there has been a huge shift and being single is now considered normal.

If you want to read their stories, read The Happy Singleton thread on the Relationship Board, it's an eye opener.

Plenty of both sexes that don’t want to financially provide for their children or don’t see housework as something they do.

I can’t abide the traditional set up of men work and women stay home so it’s not something I would ever model to my children. I want a partner who is an equal and will share the parenting/house/finances. I don’t need to be kept because Im female and neither does my husband need me home to work as he’s an adult and capable of doing his job on his own.

I suppose the difference is the women who don't want to take responsibility probably won't have children, men can have their cake and eat it.