To think there are so many men who don’t want responsibility for anything?

[Notcontent]

There are so many threads on mumsnet about men who not only do not want to do any housework, childcare, etc but also don’t want to be financially responsible for their families - so expect their wives/partners to fund maternity leave from own savings, or SAHM who have no money for anything, etc.

I wonder if we have a growing generation of men who just want to be free to do what they want and somehow go along with concept of having a partner and children but don’t actually want to take responsibility for any part of it.

My theory for why this is happening is that, as a society, we are now free from many of the expectations that existed in the past (which is good in most ways) and so people feel like they free to do as they please a lot more - but ultimately that has to change when we have commitments like children - and women obviously step up to the task (in most cases) but then get stuck in this impossible situation of not having anyone to share the responsibility.

*Women can be the same

Good god.. there is always some posters who have to add women can be the same despite the OP saying so in first post. Do some of you not understand the meaning of the words “some, almost, many”. Nowhere did OP say ALL.

If I look at my friendship group the men who are useless were exhibiting red flags well before they had children.

I agree with this too. I eyeroll some of the crap I see on social media when I see friends and classmates moan about their exes and thought wtf would you then bring a child into this world with them? What signs were there that said they were going to be different? Have seen you moan about the same people for years and you continue to put up with it. Then I wonder if they are just doing what they themselves grew up with or is their self-esteem and/or self-worth is woefully low.

I am teaching my ds to pull their weight and they deal with laundry, cleaning and cooking.
I am teaching those things to my dd too and I’m teaching both, but more my dd, to look at people’s actions.
Don’t fall for a partner’s excuses about why they can’t pull their weight or why they didn’t behave how you expected them to.
If it’s repeated behaviour, it does not matter what their words say, look at their actions and the impact on you.

No, you are wrong, OP. There are so many people who don't want to take responsibility.

I have yet to meet a divorced woman over 65 who will entertain the idea of living with a man again. They say there's nothing in it for them

I think you will find the age is much lower than that. That doesn't mean they don't have a relationship with a man or a FWB but simply won't live with them. Apparently single women and married men live the longest. Is anyone shocked by that? I'm not.

No, you are wrong, OP. There are so many people who don't want to take responsibility

Indeed. And those people are mostly men.

In my experience.

I think many men don’t want to do household chores. Many are not able or willing to be the main earner either. Women are socialised to take responsibility for home and family and now often have to take financial responsibility too.

I’m a single parent and the sole earner. But I’m not that house proud and when I lived with my ex he did a lot of the chores. So I think a lot of women need to push men to step up re. Childcare and house. But it can’t be so they can keep everything at a standard that only they want. The dh/dp needs to have an equal day as well as an equal role.

I think the answer is true equality and a child support system that’s fit for purpose. But definitely I think the answer is not to wind back the clock 50 years and for women to just be sahp with men as “providers”. The answer is true equality and an equal share of costs and labour.

I had a child with a man from a culture very much founded on families being sacred. Didnt stop him kicking off when dd1 was 2. Disappeared for 9 years. Surfaces bow and again. Never put his hand in his pocket for as much as a pair of shoes. Its personalities to some extent. And shitty attitudes to women

To a lot of men wifework is also emasculating and if you're nagging him to do that too, then ti's a double whammy.
I reckon more traditional minded men are less likely to shirk their responsibilities, but in this age of feminism it's easier for them to walk away.

My modern and feminist husband does not think he is better than me, and therefore housework is only suitable for me, but beneath him.

I don't quite agree it's getting worse though. Many women in my grandma's generation considered a man who did not drink every day and brought some of his paycheck home, quite a decent catch. I wouldn't.

I think it is worse as men now expect women to work AND provide the majority of the housework/childcare.

My sister married a man who expects her to work full time and do all the housework, cooking etc.

*Indeed. And those people are mostly men.

In my experience.*

How sexist of you... Oh wait I forgot this is Mumsnet where all men are evil scum. Your opinion is pointless as you can't use your own experience to make sweeping generalisations.

How sexist of you... Oh wait I forgot this is Mumsnet where all men are evil scum. Your opinion is pointless as you can't use your own experience to make sweeping generalisations

How many women walk away from their children?

It’s a fact that the majority of parents who walk out on their children are men. It’s also a fact that the majority of child support owed (which is somewhere in the billions in the U.K.) is owed by men.

That’s not sexist, or anyone’s opinion. It’s facts.

How sexist of you...

I honestly couldn't GAF

@YgritteSnow

Women should make better choices and let the head rule the heart. The signs are usually always there beforehand but women in love are often blind.

I can’t relate at all. My dad was brought up in poverty in Liverpool in the 1950s, and his father said it was crucial to know how to cook and clean, as any day your wife might die or become sick. So my dad has always been a tremendous cook and fastidious cleaner.

My husband works long hours and I work 10-15 hours a week part-time but am effectively a SAHP. And yet he still pitches in with domestic chores, always making breakfast for the family, taking out the rubbish and loading the dishwashers. I have sons and think it’s crucial that they have a father who handles some of the domestic load.

Also, there’s no bizarre depositing of small amounts of money by my husband in a separate account for me. I spend what I want, when I want. I can’t relate at all to the threads detailing financial abuse or neglect of domestic chores, and pity the women for whom this is a reality.

Also this is an internet forum where among other things people come to raise concerns about a rubbish partner.

You're gonna get a skewed view if you're basing your opinion on what you read here.

If you look in the relationship section you'd think every man on earth is a useless manchild wanker.

I'm not.

Good to know Gobbycop. However, is this a fact or an opinion?

Gobbycop has a very good point. Threads on MN are what a statistician would call a self selected sample, not a random sample. I've never posted about my DH because he's always been a standup partner and supported me in every way he can. He even does most of the cooking, laundry and shopping.

People post here when they're at the end of their thread, not when they're happy, and it's mostly about male partners because the user population skews heavily female.

It can only be my opinion really.

But I doubt many people are going to come to an internet forum and post about how great their partner is, they'll just hopefully be getting on with their lives (another opinion 😉)

@Gobbycop

I have met many women whose H pushed off and left them with insufficient money. I have met a few women who left their children, but nowhere as many as men.

I agree you often get people posting on MN, they WANT a baby, or another one and OH doesn’t, I have known people who have had that baby and OH has left, many men are not as keen on children as women. That is why they are off on their famous MN ‘hobbies’ when ever they can

I agree that women who ignore red flags are foolish and I certainly despair of those who become Sahm without marrying first.

But it’s NOT always obvious.

My ex displayed no red flags, quite the opposite and was until we split for the most part (couple of small blips early on) a hands on husband and father.

While we were together he was very disparaging of deadbeat dads. His dad had been married & divorced with children before meeting his mum and my ex fil continued to be an involved and supportive father after that divorce (before csa even existed) and paid decent maintenance and even continued to pay half that mortgage till it was paid off as he considered that reasonable given it was his children’s home and a debt he’d entered into jointly with his ex.

My ex’s parents, siblings and old friends were completely shocked at his behaviour post split to the point they thought he was having a breakdown!

He wasn’t, he was just being a selfish arse!

I would not have even dated him if I’d had the slightest inkling he’d be like this.

But since then, getting to know others who’ve been through splits and also gaining more life experience it certainly seems to me that while men aged 50+ tend towards the “1950’s” model of partnerships they did at least consider it their responsibility to “provide” and do the “men’s” tasks at home -

Managing money
DIY
Garden & home & car maintenance
Decorating
More involved parenting of older dc (helping with homework, teaching to cycle/swim/about nature, discipline...)
Help with “heavier” housework tasks

Men under 50 seem far more inclined to do bugger all!!

Reluctant to work, certainly reluctant to do work in such a way as is likely to lead to career progression

Won’t deal with household admin

Won’t deal with household money matters

Won’t do any housework, don’t even tidy up after their own arses! Like taking dirty dishes into kitchen or putting dirty laundry in hampers

Won’t do much if any childcare, referring to any time they’re left alone with THEIR dc as “babysitting”

Won’t be involved parents - don’t attend parents eves or read school reports, don’t do the running around for clubs let alone volunteering to help at them, any “issues” eg bullying are left to mum to deal with

They’re a fucking disgrace!

But yes, I’m afraid a big part of why they do this is because they’re allowed to get away with it - and NOT just by the individual women they’re involved with but the govt too!

The cms don’t pursue non-payers with any kind of vigour or discipline. It’s an absolute scandal that Nrps get away with paying so little cm and are able to reduce how much they pay purely for living with someone else’s dc, that’s if they pay at all!

It’s incredibly hard to cut a deadbeat out of your child’s life, yes ideally we hope our dcs other parent chooses to be involved in their life and care for them BUT if it’s patently clear they have NO interest in doing so then it should be far easier to have their parental rights revoked so the RP isn’t having to accommodate & try to limit the emotional abuse/damage this incurs. Also unreasonable that rps have to get permission for holidays etc from an nrp who hasn’t even spoken with the child in YEARS!

On the rare occasions (of which I weirdly know of a few) where the nrp is a woman they can be just as bad following a split. So this is not merely an anti father rant.

It’s anti bad parents, selfish adults rant.

But it IS mostly men and I would say it’s mainly because they’ve been raised as “little princes” and as a result are entitled dicks!

I can count on one hand the men I know in real life (out of HUNDREDS) who are genuinely:

Faithful
Respectful
Hard working - at work and at home

Non sexist
Fully involved as parents

And 3 of these are or were single rps at one point - maybe that’s the key? Maybe we should make them be single rps for a time?

“I think many men don’t want to do household chores.” And? NOBODY but nobody WANTS to do household chores! They’re boring, tedious and repetitive and can even be tiring and make you sore. But SOMEBODY in a household has to do it or we’d all be living in filthy middens!

Not WANTING to do it is not an acceptable excuse.

“Many are not able or willing to be the main earner either.” And how many people do you think would work the job they do if they didn’t have to?

I’d love to work again BECAUSE I would like to have more income, and also because I miss the camaraderie and self respect it brings. But I’ve done all kinds of jobs over the years and some I absolutely HATED (mainly due to shitty colleagues it must be said) but I kept working there till I found another job because I needed the wage.

And despite tabloid bollocks to the contrary one cannot CHOOSE not to work in this country and go “on the dole” without damn good reason.

“The answer is true equality and an equal share of costs and labour.”

Exactly!

Things like:

Compulsory paternity leave = maternity leave

Decent, affordable childcare for all ages.

Close the gender pay gap by enforcing equal pay laws

Enforce sex discrimination laws

Just for starters!