To think there are so many men who don’t want responsibility for anything?

[Notcontent]

There are so many threads on mumsnet about men who not only do not want to do any housework, childcare, etc but also don’t want to be financially responsible for their families - so expect their wives/partners to fund maternity leave from own savings, or SAHM who have no money for anything, etc.

I wonder if we have a growing generation of men who just want to be free to do what they want and somehow go along with concept of having a partner and children but don’t actually want to take responsibility for any part of it.

My theory for why this is happening is that, as a society, we are now free from many of the expectations that existed in the past (which is good in most ways) and so people feel like they free to do as they please a lot more - but ultimately that has to change when we have commitments like children - and women obviously step up to the task (in most cases) but then get stuck in this impossible situation of not having anyone to share the responsibility.

Oh come on. Plenty of women have had kids with men who seemed suitable and made all the right noises, only to feel secure enough (now their partner is tied to the relationship by a baby) to become utter twats. I've been there. And so have lots of other women on MN. There's a lot of internalised sexism in this thread.

3. Men want to be seen as the provider and to be useful to their families. If you're the breadwinner, or are paying more than 40% of the bills, he feels emasculated because he's not doing his duty. To a lot of men wifework is also emasculating and if you're nagging him to do that too, then ti's a double whammy

Nice misogynistic answer there. Poor men can’t do the cleaning because it’s below them, it’s for women, or their poor little egos get hurt. Too fucking bad, they can suck it up like women do. And we also have to make sure we earn less than them because again, their fragile egos? “Nagging“ is also a nice misogynistic terms that’s only applied to women.

Maybe find a man who doesn’t get his self worth from keeping a little woman about the house who he can be in charge of to make himself feel important.

If you're basing your opinion on posts on MN then of course your view will be skewed as people (predominantly straight females) use these forums as a sounding board for problems. If people are happy they generally won't be on here starting threads about it. It's probably no worse than it's ever been - just everyone is connected these days and can discuss it (which is not a bad thing)

It would be like looking at forum posts when trying to buy a car - you'd never buy anything as the only people really posting are complaining when something's gone wrong.

If I look at my friendship group the men who are useless were exhibiting red flags well before they had children. My friends chose to ignore these because they either were scared to end up alone (at age 22 looking like chelsy davy!) or because he didn't seem as abusive as the last boyfriend (bar set too low). And then when the kids arrive they can't leave because "it might hurt the kids". In my opinion not showing the kids what an equal, happy marriage looks like hurts them much more in the long run. I think that too many women are afraid to be alone or raise kids alone when they're younger.

My DH is very financially responsible, and looks after the kids. It’s household tasks, cleaning, decorating, and driving where he falls down!

Which is why most of my professional, educated and financially secure female friends are single and staying that way.

For men, I think you can read 'people'. Plenty of women don't want to take responsibility either.

But we usually still do, don't we? Because someone has to look after the kids, so we women, en masse, fucking well get on with it.

NAMALT, SWALT blah blah blah

I have yet to meet a divorced woman over 65 who will entertain the idea of living with a man again. They say there's nothing in it for them

Amen to that! I'm mid 50s and I'm quietly planning my escape route so that I can be rid of my selfish, untidy, mean H and live the remainder of my life on my own, in peace, embracing my inner minimalist with none of his crap all over the place.

Nagging“ is also a nice misogynistic terms that’s only applied to women

No it isn’t, my bloke’s got a PhD in nagging, honed by frequent practice.

@AngelsSins i'm not sure you understand what misogynistic means if anything it's misandric statement, lol.

I'm not excusing, i'm explaining, two very different things. Why do so many women find that their men act up in this way? Because this is how they feel, rightly or wrongly. The only way to fix it is to teach our sons (and daughters) that everyone is responsible for the household and to leave (or not date at all) men who are irresponsible.

*If I look at my friendship group the men who are useless were exhibiting red flags well before they had children."

^ This is my experience too; with one or two surprising exceptions.

I don't want the responsibility of parenthood and a long term relationship.

So I have taken the logical step to not enter into any of those arrangements.

If only everyone could see it that simply.

I think it’s what you’re used to.
My fil did nothing in the house and I mean nothing. My mil waited on him hand and foot. Put his clothes out for him, bathed him, dried him seriously everything. My ex cooked, shopped and did his share of parenting. My mil thought he was superman whereas I just thought it was normal.
You get what you put up with.

That's partly why I married a man from a more traditional and family oriented macho culture.

what is a family oriented macho culture? Womens place is in the kitchen, I earn the money? .....no thanks

@aryastarkwolf part of me agrees with you and part of me thinks women who follow the traditional roles have the right idea. They stay home and do the child care and cook and clean. Meanwhile women who don’t follow traditional roles work full time take on most of the child care and cooking and cleaning. There have been studies into it and no matter how much money the woman makes she still does most of the chores and child care!

@paragraphs

There are so many threads in MN about men who have no sense of pride, basically. They want to have their their cake and eat it - ie they no longer feel compelled to financially provide (look at all the women with separate finances who are effectively expected to support themselves through maternity and beyond). Yet they don’t step up domestically either.

This. ^

You will usually find this type of man is the sort to insist on splitting the bill on the first date too. Even if he asked you out!

@pallasathena

I have yet to meet a divorced woman over 65 who will entertain the idea of living with a man again. They say there's nothing in it for them.

This, except I would change 'over 65' to 'over 45...' If DH was to die or leave now (we are both mid 50s,) no way in HELL would I ever live with another man. Been living with DH for 30 years now, and I've definitely been the one doing 95% of EVERYthing for the entire 30 years... All the housework and most of the childcare, AND I have always worked too - At least 24 hours a week.

DH has a job (been in work all his adult life,) but he is (and always HAS been) lazy - when it comes to housework. He has also always left 95% of the childcare to me, as well as rarely lifting a finger in the house.

If asked to do anything, he huffs and puffs and sighs and does it so slowly that it's quicker to do it myself. Not his fault really, he is a product of a misogynistic upbringing where his mom did everything in the house, whilst he and his dad and his 2 equally lazy brothers, sat on their arses doing fuck-all, because they were the big important men with the big important jobs.

Like me though, his mom worked too... 20 to 26 hours a week!

I am also from a background/upbringing where the women did everything in the house (including all the childcare,) too. So just did it because I thought that was my 'lot.'

If I could see my time over again, or (as I said,) if DH died, or left, I would NEVER live with another man again. In fact, I would not do ANYthing for any man. So I am better off never getting into another relationship.

DH complains now that our (now adult) children are much closer to me. Probably because you left 95% of the child rearing to me matey eh?

Have you brought in 95% of the money?

If I look at my friendship group the men who are useless were exhibiting red flags well before they had children."

This too. ^

I know right now of a young woman of 25, who has been with her boyfriend (27) for 6 years, and they have lived together for 4. Despite her being a degree-educated professional, and a feisty and outspoken feminist, who says 'ain't gonna let no man tell ME what do,' she does some 85-90% of the housework and shopping and cooking. Her B/F just sits there and does hardly ANything in the house, and because she doesn't want to sit in a shit-tip, she does it (nearly) all.

Also, he spends 50-60% of his waking hours outside work playing golf, squash, and badminton, and also cycling, and working out at the gym. She is keen on getting married and having a baby, but he is 'not ready' yet. I think the best thing for her would be for the relationship to fizzle out, because no way will he give up his 'man' hobbies if they have a baby. Men never DO give anything up. Their life goes on as it did before the babies, but women have to sacrifice a LOT, and their life is never the same after having babies. Everything changes.

I also agree that women are better off slipping into that 'traditional role' of being SAHM/housewife, as the ones who DO carry on working/carry on with their career, still end up doing all the housework and child-rearing anyway. The life of a working mother is hard. MUCH harder than a SAHM, or a child-free working woman.

And this is a hill I will die on!

Ime Yes. My ex just fucked off and moved far away from our dc's schools, so doesn't have to deal with any school stuff. He also just sort of doesn't feel like working, or providing anything for his dc. Never bought them a scrap of clothing or a pair of shoes since the day they were born.

YANBU I'm the main earner and default parent it's exhausting

I don't know this site doesn't often paint a great picture of women.

So many women hating women, so many women hating MIL and the step mums, so many women expecting every damn penny to come from someone else.

So many women choosing to have 3+ kids and then screaming they can't cope. What did they think it would be like?

what is a family oriented macho culture? Womens place is in the kitchen, I earn the money? .....no thanks

The "macho" bit was struck out, it was supposed to be a bit tongue in cheek.

No he doesn't think my place is in the kitchen. In fact he's a better cook than I am, but I do most (not all!) of the childcare and housework at present because I'm a SAHM. He is very proud and happy to be able to give his family a good standard of living by working hard and earning well. We share everything, there is no 'yours and mine' in terms of money or property. He is really grateful for everything I do for our family and knows very well that being at home with small children is not the easy option. When the DC are older I am going to retrain and he completely supports this.

I don’t need to be kept because Im female

I think that's an incredibly cynical way of looking at family life. My husband and I are a team and we have decided to split the burden in half. I manage the home, he earns the money. Why am I "kept" and he isn't?

I think you've got to remember you are seeing a biased sample here. Those of us who are in relationships with responsible men, either together or in co-parenting type situations, don't tend to post about them because there isn't anything to write about if you know what I mean.

It's only the people in those situations who have the need to post about it.

In my own sphere of social relationships, I know of more men who are responsible fathers and/or partners then not.