Unprotected swimming pool

[TrainsandDiggers]

We are currently visiting a family who recently emigrate to a hot country. They have a lovely pool in the garden which my children are loving. The worry I have though, is that the pool is completely unprotected - no fences, alarms, life rings - nothing. To get to the pool and garden you have to go down a number of steps. Whilst they can be seen from the house, lots of big vegetation preclude a clear view. They have four children of their own, all under 10 and two under fives. Personally, I am watching my own children like a hawk and just can’t relax. AIBU or is this set up just really irresponsible?

We used to know a family whose son died when he was three, their family pool had a gate but it wasn’t high enough to prevent him opening it. He got in while his mum was on the phone (before mobiles were widely used in 2000).

They need to sort out their safety.

I am a pool lifeguard. I would find this very worrying too.

Okay, so maybe all the kids that drown are not ‘average kids’. Maybe some are naughty. Maybe some are rule-breakers. Maybe some gave a type of SN. Doesn’t mean they deserve to drown.

Ever said anything about children who can’t behave deserving to drown. I’m just wondering why this pool is such a massive angst. Yes pool are really dangerous, but let’s be reasonable. They should be fine with normal, sensible supervision. I live near a beach promenade. The houses are literally seconds from the shore, there is a Primary school with 800 pupils a street away from the beach. No child drownings have been reported in the last 20 years. What do all these parents do to keep their children safe?

*I never

We regularly stay somewhere with an unfenced pool and the children letting themselves out (the lock meant they could still open the door from the inside) before I got up in the morning. As well as being strict with rules about going outside/using pool I bought a very simple alarm that went of if the magnet circuit is broken and put that on every night. The only people to set it off are the grown ups forgetting it's on.

Mine can both swim now but are still young and it still bothers me as, I encourage them and want them to be confident swimmers, but not so confident they'd go in without a grown up watching them!

Ever said anything about children who can’t behave deserving to drown. I’m just wondering why this pool is such a massive angst. Yes pool are really dangerous, but let’s be reasonable. They should be fine with normal, sensible supervision. I live near a beach promenade. The houses are literally seconds from the shore, there is a Primary school with 800 pupils a street away from the beach. No child drownings have been reported in the last 20 years. What do all these parents do to keep their children safe?

@Goatinthegarden water is dangerous and a potential killer!

I remember this case very well.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/boys-body-is-found-on-beach-new-story-on-beach-kids-1361415.html%3famp

I can't believe any sensible adult thinks "it'll be fine" and has such a shockingly lax attitude to something so dangerous.

A swimming pool in the garden is a massive attraction to small children.

I can't believe any sensible adult thinks "it'll be fine" and has such a shockingly lax attitude to something so dangerous.

I neither said it was fine, nor not a danger. I’m just wondering about the hyperbolic reactions of people being unable to sleep at night or saying they would leave the property immediately.

From my very limited experience of children under 5, I would imagine you have to supervise them at all times doing all activities. You know the pool is a risk, so be vigilant. I can’t see why it would ruin the holiday having to watch your children carefully.

Small children will be attracted to water in ponds, pools, rivers, lakes, the sea etc.
If not watched properly or safeguarded appropriately then they are at very high risk of drowning, and many do.

Yes in Australia there are very strict rules about fencing, proper gating etc but that doesn't mean everyone actually follows them, although they should, and still we get regular news reports of small children drowning, either because they scaled the fence, someone left the gate open, or it had a faulty latch, or it wasn't fenced properly.

It's an absolutely bizarre attitude to have to open pools, to say "well can they follow rules?" because of course ALL small children under 5 and 6 do what they're told ALL the time, don't they

We have a pool. We have a high fence and a proper gate with a working latch. DS2 is 7 and is still not allowed in the pool unsupervised because he cannot swim properly yet, although he can get to safety. DS1 is 12 and is still not allowed to be in the pool on his own and unsupervised because accidents can still happen (if he has a friend or friends over then they aren't supervised then). If we have a pool party then parents of younger kids are asked to stay because I'm not a lifeguard and there's a limit to how many kids you can watch at once.

I do not take any risks with the pool and I don't understand any parents who do.

@Goatinthegarden I'm just glad that your lax attitude is very much in the minority here!

Glad also that Australia and France have strict rules in place.

No is not sleep well with an unprotected pool in my back garden, I wouldn't have that or a pond that's unprotected.

FYI children under 5 are very unpredictable.

DH almost died in his aunt's pool. In hot countries drowning in pools is often the leading cause of death in kids. You're not being paranoid.

Goat - I was up worrying for the following reasons:
• My children are in a guest room downstairs and the back patio doors can be opened from the inside.
• My children are not naughty, but they are nonetheless children - very young, naive and inclined to be impulsive
• The other children who live in this house (or even the adults!) might wake up before me and open the patio doors. Their children might have even go outside to play - how disciplined could I expect two children under 6 to be when other children are outside and other adults are permitting this?
• I am a parent. There is a very real danger to my children just a small distance away from them - all sorts of horrid intrusive images and scenarios are running through my mind and keeping me awake.

NB - before you say it, I brought them to my room in the night.

Thanks to everyone for their comments. Glad to know most don’t think I’m being unreasonable. Now, how to approach it with our friends. My guess is that they have considered the danger but don’t think it’s significant enough to do anything about...

Goat is an example of what some people think - and why governments introduce rules to protect people from themselves!
You have to say something, but then it's on them.
Depending on which country, locals might also start to say the same thing. Imagine your kids going on a playdate there!

@Goatinthegarden you don't supervise children under five all the time, how the hell would you shower, cook, use the bathroom?

You try to have safe surroundings around them for those occasions, you know like a fenced off pool, so they don't drown!! Like having matches out of their way etc etc.

OP I understand you concerns completely, but you are hugely unreasonable to expect your friends to fit short notice fencing/alarms for your visit

Thanks Op for explaining the risk of the other adults. I was considering my own living situation where I live with a safety conscious DH and a house that is locked up like Fort Knox. A small child wouldn’t be able to get out unnoticed or unsupervised.

“YANBU to watch the children like a hawk, but YABU if you expected the family to put in a fence or similar at their own expense because you are visiting.”

This

OP on your last day please be sure you or dh minds the dc.
When parents are busy packing etc that is a common time for young children to wander off.

No! Never. I am another Australian and know a couple of people who have drowned including a small child. I also know people who learned the hard way that older kids drown in pools unsupervised too, even when they can swim.

It was a mistake not checking the set up before arranging to stay.

Friends have made very poor decisions on this, exposing their and others’ DC to high risk, but that’s their business. You can’t ask the friends to make any changes for your stay.

In your situation I would find alternative accommodation, or sleep in with the DC and get up when the DC do.

My DC are very drawn to water, generally well behaved and sensible but could totally see DC1 in particular breaking rules in this kind of situation.

Can I just clarify again that I don’t expect special measures for my visit, but would think that a family with 4 children would have them in place anyway. My AIBU was asking - AIBU to think that this is irresponsible? It wasn’t asking - AIBU to think that my friends should have installed a pool fence for our visit.

We have a similar situation with a relative’s house abroad and it does worry me. Basically the ‘rules’ we implemented were that the doors must always be shut, the children had to sleep upstairs and someone had to be ‘on’ all the time. It is more dangerous in a big group situation as you assume someone else is watching the children. The years when my eldest was smaller were in some ways easier as she wouldn’t have been able to get out herself unless someone left a door open. This year will be more of a test as there will be two of them and she is now of an age where she could open doors etc. She knows she can’t go in the pool on her own though but you can’t rely on that.

I wouldn’t be comfortable with the set up the OP described where the children could get access outside from their bedrooms.

How old are their children?

Does the family have a pool cover they could put on at night?
Most pool owners do. If it's a summer one it's not a safety cover but it will offer a little protection as long as it's not relied on. Our 17kg dog walked out on ours once, as we were just finishing attaching it and it held her weight. Ask them if they would mind putting it on just to ease your worries.
I can't understand why they don't have an alarm, they're literally approx £250.

Their children are all under 10 - 2 under 5s.

No pool cover due to shape of the pool.

I echo everyone else, hard no here and DSs are usually well behaved 7 and 3. DC in your room overnight and a conversation with your friends. Good luck.