To think I will be dismissed for sickness record?

[nojob]

I started a new job last October with 3 month probation. I was told in January that my probation was to be extended for 2 months 'due to absence' as I'm not fully trained up yet and haven't been able to demonstrate I can meet the required standard. They said they are confident that I should meet the required standard by the end of February.

I have been off sick for 10 days in total (2 days in November, 2 days in December, 1 day in January all due to very bad periods and 5 days last week due to a heavy cold.). Can they decide not to pass my probation even if my performance is ok? They haven't said anything yet but I get the vibe that they are not very supportive of sickness. I missed some important training when I was off last week. Should I be worried?

john Jeez that’s a long post about things I never asked you about. So you are in employment law?

curlsnotfrizz - you could have gone to work whilst having a miscarriage but other people cannot. Regardless of pay I would not have gone to work.

I wonder how people would be treating the OP if her time off had been for that? “Oh I went to work so you should be able to.”

Another point I want to make... I helped a friend not lose his job when he was under the two year period. They used a reason which was not in the contract or policy and procedures. He was able to explain this to them in a civilised way at the meeting and they reached an agreement. He kept his job and the company updated their policy.
My view has always been “communication”. Any reasonable person would understand unless of course you are really taking the p*.

The policy and procedures don’t apply to employees of less than two years duration, johnmartin, however civilised the discussion.

I’m assuming it’s not employment law that johnmartinday is in!!

No I’m not practising employment law. But I am able to pick up a law book and still understand it. Use case law and apply it.
I’ve hired and fired people after their probation period. And in her defence I would say this much: if they knew early on during her first three months why did they bother with an extension? Why didn’t they explain to her clearly what their expectations were before giving her the extension? They don’t sound very smart for a company or at least not in control of what they are doing.
If I had someone in her probation period I would be ticking boxes and making notes and if she was late or absent I would be having a conversation with her immediately stipulating the company’s expectations and also trying to find out if there was something the company could do to help her if it was part of the policy.
Anyone in HR with my way or the highway attitude isn’t going to grow in her career because HR doesn’t stand for I’m here to fire you!

plom, not sure if you are dim or trying to wind people up. you clearly cannot read and comprehend what people post.

Why are people comparing mc’s and broken limbs to someone taking time off for a cold or painful period?

No I’m not practising employment law. But I am able to pick up a law book and still understand it. Use case law and apply it.

How old are the books in the case law though? Workers rights have just decreased considerably in the last few years and the procedures that might have to have been followed a few years ago don't apply now.

johnmartinday you're being extremely unhelpful to the OP in this case and your lengthy anecdotes are irrelevant. Unless you were in the meetings with OP you have absolutely no way of knowing what was said and your grasp of basic employment law/rights is worrying if you do have a law degree.

Unfortunately I agree with most posters
In probation (however sympathetic I am to your period problems) I would let you go. Basically because I can see you being off 1-2 days off every month. I can’t cover that (retail).
Out of probation you would currently be on verbal warning. Again absolutely nothing to do with lack of sympathy but that’s our policy. 3 instances of absence in a rolling year starts the disciplinary process. Verbal, written, final written and then gone.
But there are times when we can skip one or two if those levels and go straight to dismissal or final written.
If you have that level of absence you cannot do your role properly or fully.

Unlike others I think you’ve found another company that is very much more lax. You were extremely lucky your previous employer allowed you 1 day off and 1 WFH per month. And this one extended your probation with 5 absence days in 3 months so you might get lucky here too. I’d suggest taking the bull by the horns and speak to your manager now. Ask what their intentions are regarding your probation, explain your side of things and hope that they are understanding.......BUT you need to deal with the period issue, I know you want children but for the next year I’d be stopping my periods by whatever means and make yourself indispensable at work then look at TTC.
Another way to look at it is....if you were asked to take 2 days holiday each month to cover your period absence, would you be happy? Then think about how your colleagues feel about you having double annual leave a year.

A law degree means nothing. I have a law degree, LPC, training contract and 8 years PQE. I wouldn’t dare advise someone on employment law. Sure, you can apply the basics but anyone can. The law degree doesn’t help you do that.

@Alsoco

Same for me. I wouldn't dare advise on employment law either

The medical threads are the best. There is someone on here looking for a diagnosis that fits everything and the amount today people on here that feel qualified to tell her she has pernicious anaemia is staggering

People really do think that law and medicine are so easy you can just google it to be able to advise

This really is ridiculous, the stupid arguments that people are putting forward for why they should stay off work, being paid, making sure colleagues are picking up your slack FOR A COLD.

If everyone took time off for this the country would grind to a halt. There wouldn't be any jobs to skive off from.

It is life. You have to work. Lots of people would rather not work, but there we go we all have to.

You can't take 2 days a month off for period pain. I used to faint from the pain too, but I got strong prescription medication. You need to try that. If you need the time off for your periods ask for flexible work in or take it unpaid.

Sorry @flower1994 I thought it was recommended to cough/sneeze into a tissue or elbow? So long as the tissue was immediately disposed of of course.

How else?

I said its astounding how many people don't do that

People have a very particular way to interpret

You need to sort your absence out... They are trying to train you, they have extended the period to get you to be trained up despite your sickness record. It all costs money and I think you are worried because you are not reliable!

Unless you've got something you declared on your medical records, I'd be worried. Do you just love a sick day? Fair play.

I’m reading this thread feeling utterly guilty. I’m currently on day 6 of sick leave and am hoping to see the doctor tomorrow to get my sick certificate extended by a few days. I have severe asthma and currently also have an almighty chest infection, ear infection and inflamed lungs. I feel like utter, total shit and have no energy at all. I have an amazing, fabulous employer who has supported every one of my flare ups (roughly one a year) but I’m reading this and feeling like an utter piss taker.

OP I think you’re on unsteady ground tbh.

The bottom line is you and the employer entered into a contract in which you said you would do the job and they agreed to pay you for doing it. If you are unable to do the job to the required standard, they have the right to bring that employment contract to an end in order to employ someone who can do it. That includes turning up frequently enough to get the work done. No matter how genuine the reasons behind any sickness, the work still has to be done, so you might just not be the right person for them.

What you need to think about though, is that unless you can get your periods under control, you might not be the right person for any employer, and that's a problem for you, not us, not the employer. So, it's a problem you need to sort out.

So many people seem to struggle with that, thinking that if their sickness is genuine it's unfair for them to be subject to disciplary or dismissed. Being genuinely sick is awful but it doesn't magically make the employer's problem (ie the work not being done) vanish

So many people seem to struggle with that, thinking that if their sickness is genuine it's unfair for them to be subject to disciplary or dismissed.
This is so true. It does seem so unfair. It’s not the employee’s fault, they didn’t deserve this. I’ve seen it happen several times and feel so sorry for people who have been dismissed for no fault of their own. It’s devastating. Work can be a big social network for people, as well as sometimes giving the impression of a paternalistic organisation that will be there for you, will look after you, keep paying you if you’re ill. But this is usually not the case.

@johnmartinday

You are so wrong, and really shouldn't be giving such advice.

And in her defence I would say this much: if they knew early on during her first three months why did they bother with an extension? Why didn’t they explain to her clearly what their expectations were before giving her the extension?

• They did. They told her at her review meeting that they were extending her probation period because despite her doing okay with her training, her absenteeism was a concern.

They don’t sound very smart for a company or at least not in control of what they are doing.

• Why are they not in control? As others have already said, they can dismiss her without recourse because she has been there less than two years, unless there is proof of discrimination against a protected characteristic. Most contracts state that the company disciplinary procedure does not apply within the probationary period. Even in the unlikely event that the contact doesn't state that, she can be dismissed purely on the fact that having been spoken to about her attendance, she then had a further 5 days off sick shortly afterwards.

If I had someone in her probation period I would be ticking boxes and making notes and if she was late or absent I would be having a conversation with her immediately stipulating the company’s expectations and also trying to find out if there was something the company could do to help her if it was part of the policy.

• How do yo know what notes they have or haven't taken. They can write notes after the fact, but I'm sure if they bothered with the meeting, they bothered to make notes. They had the review meeting, she was told her probation would be extended on the basis of her high number of sick days. Job done! They don't need to do anything to help her at this stage. She's got heavy periods and a cold, which could ini no way fall under the protected characteristic set out in the Disability Discrimination Act.

Anyone in HR with my way or the highway attitude isn’t going to grow in her career because HR doesn’t stand for I’m here to fire you!

• Wrong. Employers want HR managers who know their shit when it comes to employment law, so they can get rid of the dead weight legally.

OP's employer has done absolutely nothing that isn't by the book. They could cut her lose tomorrow with no legal issues whatsoever. By her own admission, they are a small business. The do not owe her a job. She is not entitled to anything from them, they are giving her an opportunity, and have been more than fair in giving her heads up about her frequent absences.

I really hope OP gets some help from her doctor with her periods, it can't be very nice at all. However, I hope she also gets the message from this thread that one or two days off a month isn't something most employers or employees would see as reasonable.