To think I will be dismissed for sickness record?

[nojob]

I started a new job last October with 3 month probation. I was told in January that my probation was to be extended for 2 months 'due to absence' as I'm not fully trained up yet and haven't been able to demonstrate I can meet the required standard. They said they are confident that I should meet the required standard by the end of February.

I have been off sick for 10 days in total (2 days in November, 2 days in December, 1 day in January all due to very bad periods and 5 days last week due to a heavy cold.). Can they decide not to pass my probation even if my performance is ok? They haven't said anything yet but I get the vibe that they are not very supportive of sickness. I missed some important training when I was off last week. Should I be worried?

Why is being on pribation or being within weeks of starting relevent. If two employees were sick, one is in probation and the other is not, you would really look at the one on probation worse

Yes.

Because it's difficult enough finding good, reliable employees who aren't going to just do the right thing until they get their feet under the table, without giving a chance to those who don't even bother with the waiting-'til-feet-under-table bit.

@Turquoiseduck

So why comment on matters of English employment law and procedure when you dont know what you're talking about

Because I am British and I am commenting on a British website? And because the general pronciple is the same. Someone asked me what I would do as a business owner if I was presented with this case scenario. And the point I was trying to make is that I wouldn't automatically bin this woman without discussing all aspects of her absences fully, and her work with her, and with any available medical evidence (if she has ongoing gynae issues as declared in interview she could have previous consultant letters etc) and with colleagues. And I would be inclined to give her a fair hearing because my daughter has similar issues.

Just because our business is abroad doesn't mean we don't have to watch the bottom line, and don't face recruitment challenges, same as anyone else. But at the same time, I've found over the years that if you try and understand where people are coming from and (within reason) offer second chances , people do - in some cases- give you loyalty and go the extra mile in return.

But at the same time, I've found over the years that if you try and understand where people are coming from and (within reason)

Personally, I wouldn't view taking time off every single month to be "within reason". But I guess "within reason" is up for debate.

Tbf OP, one of the reasons you're probably getting very blunt replies is because many of us have been the manager of someone like you, and I can tell you from me, it's a fucking headache.

I had someone whose anxiety prevented then from calling in sick, so they just didn't come in. As a new(ish) manager at the time I tried my best to help them, I put in every reasonable measure I could think of but they still couldn't adhere to basic rules.

That aside, the actual absence was a huge issue. Their work had to be split up between other staff which caused bad feelings and arguments, with the overall result being that our customers suffered. Like I say, I was a new manager so spent ages going through online HR resources, called ACAS, spoke with the MD, ontop of trying to do her job, arranging cover and do my own job.

Why is being on pribation or being within weeks of starting relevent.

Because you don't have many employment rights in probation, nor does an employer know whether it's a one-off or not. Whereas if Jane has been there ten years and has only been off sick twice, you'll know it's a genuine illness.

You are behaving disgracefully OP.

Instead of acknowledging that your absences have been ludicrously high and taking advice that PPs have given you on board, you spent time digging around to find a policy that you hope to manipulate to your advantage.

If I were your manager, you'd be out the door so fast your feet wouldn't hit the ground.

I think you were lucky to get extended probation to be fair.

If the OP had been required to obtain a doctors certificate for her absences then I suspect they would have been less frequent

I don't disagree. Over here , depending on length of service, nature of contract etc, employees are required to provide sick notes for each day of absence or each two day period depending on various other factors. But it is very easy here to get a doctors appointment.

But judgements of this sort are not just made on the evidence of medical certificates alone. It also very much depends on the quality of work when a person is there. Our small size allows us flexibility in this area. If an employee gets the work done well, and works smarter rather then longer, that's fine with us. I recognise this isn't possible in all sectors.

@Turquoiseduck you can offer the OP a job then when she gets sacked.

You have still failed to address the fact that she has taken only 1-2 days off for bad periods but a full week for a cold.

You'd be supportive of that instead of saying take a decongestant and get on with it.

Funny business you run if that's acceptable

Personally, I wouldn't view taking time off every single month to be "within reason". But I guess "within reason" is up for debate.

Absolutely.

Lots of smug posters here. I generally only take time off if I’m hospitalised / signed off sick but I’m not smug about it. I have had odd days off for D&V too and things like that.

I don’t think there is any merit in going to work whilst having a miscarriage or with a limb hanging off. Why? It’s a job. When I’m at work I do my job as required to a high standard and I understand that I have an obligation to be at work. When I broke a bone I couldn’t physically get to work. I wasn’t going to crawl on the floor and down the tube stairs to get there! These things happen.

And all it takes is an accident or illness like cancer and YOUR employer manages you out, even if you’ve been there over two years. Employers don’t give a shit. You can have perfect attendance for 20 years but the company goes bankrupt. Or you’ve been there 5 years, one day off sick but get pregnant and find you have no job. Employers can get round laws such as discriminating against pregnant women. Cancer is also protected as a disability but people with cancer can still find themselves managed out or made redundant. Employers have the upper hand, even if you’ve never been off sick. I’m saying all this as somebody who’s never been subject to disciplinary procedures or absence management.

Self employed people saying they’ve never been off sick. Great. But all it takes is a fall down the stairs or a car accident to make you disabled. Or cancer or sepsis.

Just waiting for the post “I’m actually dead but I’m so dedicated to my job I work from the afterlife” or “I typed up minutes from a meeting / dialled into a telecom whilst giving birth.”

Yes I think you should be worried, sorry. If you'd have had 10 days off as one absence due to flu or something then fine. You've had 4 separate absences in as many months. For period pain and a cold.... In my place of work you'd be on a formal warning for that.

@PlomBear

Nobody's talking about a miscarriage or broken limb.

This is a about 3 separate absences for period pain and a further whole week for a cold. During probation when she should be trying to impress her employer with her work ethic.

I would consider that person to be throwing a sickie and taking the piss.

Turquoise How many staff members would you be able to accommodate if they took this amount of time off regularly?

You have still failed to address the fact that she has taken only 1-2 days off for bad periods but a full week for a cold.

Crikey, I don't know why I am getting such stick for merely offering an alternative viewpoint!

And I HAVE addressed the cold issue if you read my previous posts.

I haven't read the entire thread but I believe the probationer had flu-like symptoms and visited a doctor twice during five days.

And she declared period problems on application

And I said I would address all of those issues with her, as well as looking at any medical evidence, and investigating her work, how she interacts with colleagues etc.

She may be taking the Michael. Or she may be a legitimate individual with genuine gyn/ob issues that require treatment who has also had the bad luck to get the flu.

I am not saying she is necessarily one or the other. What I am saying is that none of us can know on the basis of a few paras here and I don't like to rush to judgement. She could be very young. She could be very anxious. She could be a piss-taker (sorry op!) None of us know!

I’ve never heard of “precautionary medicine”, is that a thing?

Prophylaxis

Sorry OP but I think you know you have over stepped the mark. Your sickness record would be a problem for someone not on a probationary period, never mind someone who is. You really should have tried harder. I think you will be very lucky to keep your job.

Perhaps you should focus on getting your work /job sorted before TTC??

I hardly think antibiotics come under that umbrella!

We had a recent thread about people who take a day off not because they're ill but because they don't feel up to going to work. There was a surprising amount of support for it!

TurquoiseHow many staff members would you be able to accommodate if they took this amount of time off regularly?

Depends on many factors, such as their ability to make up the time at evenings or weekends or when they returned to work, the deadline of the work in question and how long their illness continued, whether it was being treated, ongoing absences etc. One would introduce strict parameters depending on those outcomes. I am aware this would be impossible in many sectors.

You knew about the period pain problem before you even took the job. You knew you'd already had 5 days off in a short time. You knew that they were already concerned that you were taking too long to train up. You knew that you were still in your probationery period.

So when you got a cold, you should have dosed yourself up and gone to work, not taken another five days off.

OP - please come back and let us know what happened!

In most organisations your sickness would be a 'trigger' to have a meeting at best, disciplinary at worst.

You have had a lot of time off. You need to try to get help with your periods. Also, perhaps move on to some type of flexible working where you can make time up/ take unpaid time off.

You are best discussing all the options with your manager and being open. Anyone can be sacked for any reason if under 2 years employment these days.

Thanking you, David Cameron. The original cunt now obviously surpassed in cuntishness. But let's not forget the damage he did to employment rights.

I don’t think there is any merit in going to work whilst having a miscarriage or with a limb hanging off

Could you indicate where anyone stated that people should go to work with a limb hanging off or having a miscarriage please?

The OP isn't having a miscarriage and doesnt have a limb "hanging off". She's referred to a cold that lasted a week and period pains. Thats not really at all comparable to having a limb hanging off is it? This is a total straw man argument.

AhNowTed - if you read the comments, people have said they have gone into work whilst having a miscarriage or with pneumonia. That’s just silly.

I know of a woman with a contagious illness. She went into work and a pregnant women lost her baby because she got ill.

I cannot wait until coronavirus takes hold and people are proudly going into work #neverhadadayoffsick and infecting vulnerable people who then die.