Being kept alive for the sake of the unborn baby..

[QueenofmyPrinces]

A bit random, but just after some other people’s thoughts about a discussion I had with my husband last night and some of our friends.

We had all been watching Kill Bill and were chatting about the fact that the main character had been shot whilst pregnant, and was in a coma for ‘x’ amount of time and then when she woke up she saw her bump wasn’t there - I guess she assumed the baby had died but in the second film, she learns that the baby didn’t die and had been living with the father for 6 years.

I then said that if I was pregnant, and something happened to me that resulted in me being clinically dead, I would want doctors to put me on a ventilator, to keep me ‘alive’ in order to preserve my baby‘s life and then deliver it at 40 weeks.

DH said that hypothetically he would want the same as we would both want the baby to be allowed to live even if something happened to me.

One of our friends was pretty horrified by the idea though and said she couldn’t put her finger on the reason why, but she just didn’t like the thought of it.

I asked why wouldn’t she want the doctors to keep her ventilated to keep the baby safe and ultimately be born, but she couldn’t give a specific reason and just said it didn’t seem right.

We didn’t get into any big debate about it or anything but I’m just interested in what other people think.

I would absolutely want to be “kept alive” to enable the safe delivery of my baby and allow it to have a chance at life.

AIBU to think most women would feel like that?

I had never heard of that case in the link above, that poor family

I think in the OPs hypothetical case it would depend on the gestation of the pregnancy for me, as well as my families wishes. If the baby was say, 34 weeks plus and much wanted by the father and wider family then go ahead and continue life support. But if the baby was only 22 weeks and I was a single mum with no family etc then obviously a completely different situation. I think if the baby could be delivered within a week or two then its reasonable, but to use a womans body as a human incubator for months just seems awful. Guess my answer is it depends on all the factors!

The Irish case was complicated because of the equal right to life of the fetus. It had a heartbeat.

This one was pretty horrific when it happened: www.nytimes.com/2014/01/27/us/texas-hospital-to-end-life-support-for-pregnant-brain-dead-woman.html

Apparently after brain death the body actually starts to decompose as the brain is no longer sending any signals to any parts of the body to keep them alive.

Did you bother to read the links a pp posted op?

In the case of the road traffic accident above, if a pregnant woman suffers a cardiac arrest then the baby should be delivered within 5 minutes because of the enormous strain on her circulation. They will never resuscitate her successfully unless they do this. It’s called a perimortem Caesarean section.
It’s a nightmare scenario but if it is not done then they both will die. At least it gives them a chance

I know the situation the OP is referring to is a situation where the mother might be brain dead with no chance of recovery but heart still beating. However the body will eventually go into organ failure and I don’t think a healthy pregnancy would be likely.

All incredibly sad to think about.

I think from 24 weeks on to try to get to around the 30 week mark would be ok with me personally

27 ish weeks even

I would ABSOLUTELY want my baby to live, even if I couldn't. I would be devastated to think two lives had been lost when only one was hopeless. I also think having the baby survive would be comfort for the surviving family. Of course it doesnt take the pain away but it gives hope at least.

This article also talks about the problems with removing rights that adults would normally have were they not able to bear children (such as end of life directives being ignored if they happen to be pregnant).

thinkprogress.org/the-battle-over-a-brain-dead-pregnant-womans-body-transformed-her-family-into-political-activists-43e867fa0f03/

Women have asked to have the embryos from IVF after the partners death or even use the semen from dead partners

That's completely different. Neither of those involve artificially keeping a human being alive seeing as both can be stored separately to the body in which they originated.

Even at the point of viability - 24wks - there is not going to be a rosy cheeked newborn. There will be months of special care, ventilation, surgeries, infections, and around a 60% chance of survival.

I really don't understand why the family took a 6 year old to see her mother in those circumstances though

I was thinking more like if the woman was 20 weeks pregnant, should she be kept on a ventilator for another 4 weeks so the baby can reach the age of visibility, and then it be delivered?

Not unless she has produced a document saying this is her preference, no.

It was on the instructions of a social worker.

The most awful thing about the Irish case is the effects on the 6 year old child. If her mother was in such a condition to traumatise the child why was she taken to visit her? Leaving her home and half brother to go and live with her father didn't have anything to do with keeping her mother alive, that would have happened even if they hadn't tried to keep the mother alive.

The poor child. What a tragedy.

Sorry I know that wasn't the question. I think like others it would depend on the timing. I know someone who had a baby very early, just 24 weeks. I know the hospital said that delaying her pregnancy and giving her steroids for 2 days made a big difference so in that case I think for the sake of a few days I'd do it.

If it was me I would absolutely NOT want to be kept "alive" to support an unborn foetus. I am not an incubator.

Did you bother to read the links a pp posted op?

About the Irish case? Yes I did - why?

There are documents that can be filled out called Advance Decision/Directive, these detail what you would wish do be done if there is something happens and you cannot speak for yourself. Things like if you were in a persistently vegetative state, terminal illness, dementia... Included is a clause as to what you would wish if you were pregnant. These need to be signed and given to GP and close family, but can avoid confusion about what someones wishes would be. It is quite easy to find them for free online.

This is why people should consider setting up medical powers of attourney so that if they have strong wishes on stuff those wishes can be followed

My mum died in childbirth.
I was very loved and cared for but it’s not easy and actually pretty traumatic to live with that fact.
If I’d had to deal with the idea I’d essentially been living inside my mother’s artificially animated corpse for however many weeks before that, pretty sure there would be some serious psychological damage there. Quite apart from the effects on the physical health and development of the foetus as shown in the stories linked. So I’m not sure how much doing so would actually be ‘for the sake of’ the unborn baby at all.

If someone is medically dead I think they should treat the patient as the patient- and not as a pregnant women who could allow that fetus to grow up until it can survive on its own.

I think for me it would depend how far along I was

Included is a clause as to what you would wish if you were pregnant.

So medics would be happy to keep a woman alive (ventilated) in order to preserve the life of the baby if she had requested it?

Have you seen the forms? Do they specify how long they would be prepared to leave a woman ventilated for in cases like this? Im guessing it wouldn’t be for months and months on end?

That sounds awful @AliasGrape 😔

Keeping a woman artificially 'alive' in order to continue a pregnancy would be a slippery slope too and I'd have concerns about it setting a worrying precedent of foetal rights trumping maternal rights and women being treated as incubators. There are all sorts of restrictive and punitive rulings that could follow on from it.

I absolutely would. I'm essentially dead anyway - why shouldn't my child be given a chance?

Certainly wouldn't want my other children being brought in to see my though, like in the link above. Horrible scenario.