To ask why people flee the UK?

[seasonalsparkler]

I haven't posted in a while and have name changed. In light of recent events such as brexit, royal drama and suicidal behaviour- I can't help but to pick up on a troubling undercurrent. So I guess I am asking for anyone to shed light on why you have fled the UK or why you might consider doing so?

@FarTooSkinny

"moving to UAE because you find large aspects of British culture to be unbearable." Care to expand on those? Would it be rule of law, a fair and open justice system or something approaching equal rights for women and minorities

@LordsALeaping

you’re moving from a democracy with problems to a superficially-westernised dictatorship with a heavily-censored press and an appalling human rights record, increasingly towards its own citizens? Good luck with that.

The UK wasn't exactly built on sunshine and magic; even today there are tens of thousands of slaves in the UK: we just don't see them.
Women's rights dramatically improved over the last century but remember that it's only been 15 years since rape in marriage was made illegal and only 1 year since abortion was legalised in Ireland.
Let's not pretend that we're the pinnacle of morality and gender equality. Women's existance and rights are being eroded as now men can access women's only spaces, claim victories in women's sports teams and be given women's only jobs.

The UAE absolutely has a way to go to become a perfect country; but every year it leaps forwards with its progression, the UK is only going backwards.

In the UAE, or certainly in the city I'm going to, self-improvement and achievement are encouraged and celebrated.
In the UK, the sense of entitlement is suffocating yet those who achieve are largely sneered at.

I think you'll find Ireland is now an independent country! has been for a quite a while.
In Northern Ireland abortion has been decriminalised for only for a few months.
Rape in marriage was made illegal almost 40 years ago.

Compared to an Arab state we are a bastion of light! but its a bit rich moving for tax reasons and then doubtless coming back here to retire, claim a pension and be a drain on the NHS whilst not having contributed other than perhaps national insurance.

“The UAE absolutely has a way to go to become a perfect country; but every year it leaps forwards with its progression, the UK is only going backwards.”

Perhaps they’ll meet at the same point in 50 years.

I left the UK because of my husband's career and because it put a lot of distance between me and my toxic family.

The UK wasn't exactly built on sunshine and magic; even today there are tens of thousands of slaves in the UK: we just don't see them. Women's rights dramatically improved over the last century but remember that it's only been 15 years since rape in marriage was made illegal and only 1 year since abortion was legalised in Ireland.

Let's not pretend that we're the pinnacle of morality and gender equality. Women's existance and rights are being eroded as now men can access women's only spaces, claim victories in women's sports teams and be given women's only jobs.

The UAE absolutely has a way to go to become a perfect country; but every year it leaps forwards with its progression, the UK is only going backwards.

In the UAE, or certainly in the city I'm going to, self-improvement and achievement are encouraged and celebrated.

With respect, how much time have you spent living in the UAE, @PleaseStopCallingMe? Given the number of straw men in your self-deluding essay, which could have been subtitled 'I'm All Right, Jack', I will assume not much.

I never mentioned slavery -- in fact the labour conditions, while still terrible for many construction and domestic workers, are better than they were.

I pointed out that you are moving from a democracy with problems to a dictatorship which I hate to disillusion you is in fact going rapidly backwards in the last decade in terms of the suppression of its own citizens, disappearing them, detaining them, removing their citizenship, denying them access to education, privacy, the right to travel, and jobs, and harassing their families and friends.

Political parties are banned. Criticism of the government is forbidden in the media. The 1980 Publications Act is considered one of the most strict in the Arab world. Textbooks in all schools are censored. Most UAE inhabitants have no citizenship rights and no prospect of getting any unless they marry an Emirati.

This is a country in which the ruler of Dubai can kidnap and forcibly detain members of his own family without it even being reported by a heavily self-censoring press, or with there being any recourse in law.

Your concern for women's rights is touching, but in the UAE FGM is legal and widespread, and has only recently stopped being conducted in government hospitals. Dubai is a popular destination for British parents to fly their daughters to for a 'safe', medicalised FGM.

There are no laws against spousal rape, and men are permitted in law to beat their wives. All sex outside of marriage is illegal, which means women don't report rape.

This is a country where a member of the Abu Dhabu royal family can be filmed raping and torturing someone and running his SUV over them, and at trial, be found not guilty, with no grounds given, and the people who leaked the film charged instead.

In classic UAE mode, 2020 was officially declared 'Year of Tolerance', but the authorities are still detaining activists, lawyers, judges, teachers, long past the end of their sentences, and subjecting them to torture, solitary confinement, without legal representation or healthcare.

The Freedom in the World 2019 report gives the UK a 'freedom rating' of 93 out of 100 (based on civil liberties, freedom of expression, independent judiciary, free and fair election of government, media censorship, rule of law, individual rights etc).

The UAE gets 17 out of 100.
freedomhouse.org/report/countries-world-freedom-2019

But obviously this all palls beside the fact that you feel your achievements are 'sneered at' in the UK.

People do not ‘flee’ the U.K.

People ‘flee’ from war torn countries and places they fear for their lives.

Don’t use it when you mean ‘moved to another country because something has offended your ideals’.

Don't bother talking about Arab nations, the mums hate them because the Guardian told them to. Its pure ignorance and armchair expertise which is best pitied and ignored.

I left 3 years ago. My mean reasons were:
Brexit
Weather
Life style
Fancied a change
It was the right time

I wouldn't say i fled though.

I would love to leave. I have duties here (for now) so it's not possible.

I feel the UK has changed so much in five years that there's just no reason to stay. You can fight for more and better rights, for equality of a sort, for fairness etc, but you can't fight for those things when those in power have a policy of destabilisation and dishonesty. The contract you have as a citizen depends to some extent on the power structures adhering to a code of basic decency. Obviously that doesn't always happen but now the code is turned on its head. I don't see how any of us can go forward positively. We can work towards our survival but not much else. Actual change and improvement are dead ideas now.

Better quality of life: more outdoorsy, more access to locally grown/produced food, air quality, more activities available (and more attainable financially)

Better infrastructure: better medical care (NHS - I wish it the best, but let's not pretend it's serving the people well), better education (English schools are shocking)

Better social life: large families, lots of socialising with friends and other families (British people are so funny about doing stuff mid-week or at the last minute)

BUT

It's not easier to buy a house (mortgages are much harder to acquire) and house prices where I live now aren't cheaper than where I lived in the UK.

I'm happy to make the compromise. That's really the only downside I see.

The main reason I left the UK is just that I felt so at odds with people there. Since before Brexit every political decision made just felt so opposite to my own. I just couldn't understand how the majority of the UK felt a way that I deemed to be so shockingly wrong. The current culture/views of the majority are in a strange, scary place and I just hated it.

Oh God this is depressing reading. I've been away for 12 years but was planning to move back to the UK quite soon. Maybe I should reconsider.

When I do visit the UK, the most troubling thing is the level of aggression and a general lack of respect for others that seems to pervade society. It's quite intimidating when you are no longer used to it.

When I do visit the UK, the most troubling thing is the level of aggression and a general lack of respect for others that seems to pervade society. It's quite intimidating when you are no longer used to it.

Agree with you. For me it's the harassment on the street from men. It's so common in the UK and I dread it whenever I go back.

Left for Australia 4 years ago. Left because DH and I just couldn't 'make it' in the UK and saw a grim future for our children.

In ten years together we hadn't succeeded at anything enough to get more than a 2 bed council flat.

His parents paid for our exit....

We now are not far off being able to buy our own place, the children attend a private school (admittedly these are much more affordable in Australia) and I've got my own business thanks to government funding.

It was the right decision.

Leadbetter I agree too. I returned to the Uk for two weeks not long ago and was genuinely shocked at how rude some people were. Getting on the bus for example, two large young men just elbowed a young Mother out of the way instead of helping her on with her buggy.

People seemed hard.

When I arrived in Oz I was taken about a how nice people were in shops etc.

Avelinebread
Don't bother talking about Arab nations, the mums hate them because the Guardian told them to. Its pure ignorance and armchair expertise which is best pitied and ignored.

Well, there's a sweeping generalisation for you. As far as I am aware I've never knowingly read the Guardian. I commented from real-life long-term living in the ME experience. I love the area for many reasons, I met and married my husband here for one, but let's not pretend there aren't many, many issues that need addressing. Some of which are far more serious than any the UK have.

Don't bother talking about Arab nations, the mums hate them because the Guardian told them to. Its pure ignorance and armchair expertise which is best pitied and ignored.

Feel free to refute with evidence any of what I've said in my post, @Avelinebread, which is based on living in Abu Dhabi and Dubai. Or indeed the detailed 2019 report on the UAE from Freedom House.

I do think that this time of year really doesn't help, and particularly with how bad the weather has been this year. It's very easy to focus on all that is wrong, and yearn for greener pastures elsewhere. Those greener pastures usually have thistles, stinging nettles and ragwort lurking within the clover. and there's usually more than one very boggy patch for an unsuspecting rambler!

I don't know of anyone 'fleeing'. I didn't 'flee' my country to come to the UK, we travelled very comfortably, having made a considered decision that in the circumstances it was the best possible option for us to come here for at least an extended period.

I know what 'fleeing' looks like. It looks like queues miles long, with fights breaking out at the petrol pumps which are running out because supplies can't be got to the city. It looks like as many people as can possibly be crammed into a car, with dogs and cats sitting atop the laps, and as much as possible stuffed into the boot and piled onto the roof, with people's faces grey with exhaustion, fear and confusion, children crying, or worse yet, utterly silent, their eyes huge, their faces gaunt with lack of sleep. That's fleeing. I'm not seeing much of that happening here in the UK. It looks like people being evacuated out by army helicopters and planes.

Let's try for a little perspective.

Where I live there is not constant aggression - it's pretty peaceful with small pockets which are exceptions. People are decent towards each other publicly, or neutral. It's pleasant. (Mind you, I am white, and middle-aged, so not a target as such. I can't speak for the experiences of POC or younger women.)

I look at employment conditions, education, political institutions, academia, the piss-poor quality of debate absolutely everywhere - the UK is fucked.

Mbosnz I kind of fled to be honest. I consider myself an economic migrant.

I left my country to do better in Australia just like so many millions of Irish people have done for centuries.

And people from Asia.

I'm no different.

YABU to use 'fleeing' when you mean emigrating. They are completely different things and it's not pedantic to point that out (as OP said above).

We came because the economic opportunities were better, but we weren't 'fleeing' as such - our lives weren't at risk, we left in a considered fashion, and travelled in safety and comfort, bringing what we wished to, storing what we didn't want to bring.

There were opportunities at home, although they were more limited in scope and nature than what is available here.

The other factor which I forgot to mention was housing. More specifically how shit our housing was and how much we had to pay to live in a shoddily built, EPC rating D house that just would not ventilate and mould was growing behind the cupboards. Here any part of the house that is below the ground does not even count as living space as it’s not considered fit for habitation. In the U.K., it’s a ‘garden’ or ‘basement’ flat.

And yet here you all are on a UK based website. Do your new fantastic countries not have their own equivalent websites ?

@meltonmowbray

That kind of snide nasty attitude is what some of us are talking about. I am on mumsnet because I want to be and many expats from my country of residence are also here. Wind your bloody neck in.

@startrek90

I have just read pages of complaints about the UK . It would appear UK = bad, most other places = good. One thing that the UK can offer over and above some other countries is the culture. You yourself must appreciate this by the fact that you visit and contribute to this site.