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Original poster

Do you believe in Heaven ?

307 replies

Sunbliss · 16/02/2020 19:51

Just that. Do you believe in Heaven? If so what do you think it’s like. Im not religious but do believe there is a Heaven or would like to believe there some place we will see loved ones again and find peace ourselves.

OP posts:
JRUIN · 19/02/2020 16:13

When I had a car accident in 2010 and I was hurtling towards the side of a lorry, I clearly thought I'm going to wake up dead, and everything will be black and there will be nothing. So I guess deep down I don't

But how would you wake up if you're dead? Confused

I don't know if I believe in heaven as such, but I don't believe it's the end when we die. I've had too many signs to ignore the presence of an afterlife.

64sNewName · 19/02/2020 16:23

When you say people “can’t be sure”, though - of course we can’t, because it’s impossible to prove a negative. That’s just an empty argument. Purely in logical terms, if either side was going to prove something it would have to be the believers. (Not that I’m suggesting anyone ought to try, certainly not for my benefit anyway.)

I can’t be sure there’s no such thing as ghosts either, or aliens walking among us masquerading as human. But I’m as sure as I feel it is necessary to be. It wouldn’t be honest or authentic to say I’m keeping an open mind about any of it.

People vary in what they regard as realistic or plausible though and I can respect that even if I don’t agree with them. In a rl context, I generally expect to receive the same respect in return rather than patronising insinuations about my mindset etc. And mostly, that is what happens. I have close friends I’ve known for decades who are committed people of faith and it’s never been an issue - everyone behaves with genuine respect in both directions.

CanIHaveATiaraPlease · 19/02/2020 17:02

Thing is, it’s not something that can be proven, is it? No one comes back from the dead. NDE aren’t the same as you haven’t actually died.

SirChing · 19/02/2020 17:35

And read what is written with more care too

I can certainly read that that comment reads as being incredibly rude.

SirChing · 19/02/2020 17:37

Also @TheSandman, I am disabled and as a result have cognitive problems which means I can't always absorb what is written. I can read it but it doesn't always compute. Sorry that I didn't catch your meaning.

TheSandman · 19/02/2020 18:03

I can certainly read that that comment reads as being incredibly rude.

It wasn't meant to be.

lynsey91 · 19/02/2020 19:29

@64sNewName you are saying that people can't be sure and yet so many think they are.

I am as sure as I can be that there is some sort of life after death but of course I can't be absolutely sure as there is no way of knowing.

I don't expect everyone to have the same beliefs as I do and I respect that but it always seems that people who don't believe in an after life, or ghosts, or God say they are absolutely certain those things don't exist and therefore anyone who does believe is gullible and/or an idiot

XDownwiththissortofthingX · 19/02/2020 19:40

@lynsey91

I don't believe in Gods, an afterlife, ghosts etc, but I certainly don't view people who do as 'idiots' or 'gullible', I just struggle to understand how they reconcile those beliefs when they run contrary to common sense and logic. There's no evidence to suggest any of it exists, what we know about the universe doesn't mandate any of it having to exist, it appears to be entirely defined by the individual, completely fluid, and if you do attempt to debate it with them, more often than not they end up retreating into a position whereby they accuse you of being insensitive or offensive, when all you're actually trying to do is ask them to explain the incongruity and obvious contradictions.

Again, it's not about viewing people with a Faith as idiots, it's that I simply can not comprehend believing in something that requires the suspension of basic logic, and ignores common sense deduction. It's like a wilful intransigence, which leads me to believe that the defensiveness and claims of offence really stem from the fact that deep down, they know it's nonsensical and untrue.

TheSandman · 19/02/2020 20:15

@XDownwiththissortofthingX

Well said!

yellowallpaper · 19/02/2020 20:20

@JRUIN I was hurtling towards the side of a lorry. I don't think logic was in it! I just believed I would become 'aware' rather than 'wake up' of being surrounded by total black emptiness. It was pretty horrible.

restawhile77 · 19/02/2020 22:28

I think it’s hugely illogical to think we sprang from nothing. It actually takes much more faith to believe this than to believe in the much more logical “we must have been created”.To think anything different actually astounds me.

TheSandman · 19/02/2020 23:16

I think it’s hugely illogical to think we sprang from nothing.

Who said we 'sprang from nothing'?

To me saying "We MUST have been created" displays an astounding lack of imagination and a very incomplete understanding of how stupendously vast the universe is, how complex it is, and how long it has been here.

It's inevitable that life will have come into existence somewhere, somewhen. It's incomprehensible to me that that life will then have the hubris to think it's the only reason the universe exists in the first place.

lynsey91 · 20/02/2020 09:59

@XDownwiththissortofthingX you say you don't view people with any faith as idiots or gullible but then you go on to say "@ It's like a wilful intransigence, which leads me to believe that the defensiveness and claims of offence really stem from the fact that deep down, they know it's nonsensical and untrue.

So you think it nonsensical. I respect your opinion but I certainly do not share it. I am not rude to people who believe there is nothing after death, who are convinced there is no God or ghosts etc so why are so many rude to people that do believe in any or all of those things?

Sorry but it is impossible for you, or anyone else, to say they are 100% certain that there is no God, afterlife etc just as it is impossible for anyone to 100% say there is. None of us know.

LastTrainEast · 20/02/2020 11:09

I don't make a habit of laughing at religious people in the street, but had we laughed at the very first one we wouldn't be in this mess now.

Consider the first time someone said "I have this friend.. no you can't see him as it's forbidden, but he told ME to tell YOU to do this..." people should have thrown tomatoes at him.

I mean seriously? Anyone want to buy this bridge?

LastTrainEast · 20/02/2020 11:14

restawhile77 The trouble is that if god loves everyone he probably shouldn't have let his followers claim he only wants people who follow him. There's really no way to read the bible and think Muslims and Hindus are going to be welcome, let alone atheists. Apparently it's their own fault for being born in a non-christian country.

Dozer · 20/02/2020 11:17

“I think it’s hugely illogical to think we sprang from nothing. It actually takes much more faith to believe this than to believe in the much more logical “we must have been created”.

Er, no. There is zero evidence to support creationism.

LastTrainEast · 20/02/2020 11:22

Rebellenny the question was "Do you believe in Heaven ?" did you really expect it to be 100% yes with everyone lying to please you?

Why go to such a thread if anything less than 100% is upsetting?

TheSandman · 20/02/2020 11:33

Sorry but it is impossible for you, or anyone else, to say they are 100% certain that there is no God, afterlife etc just as it is impossible for anyone to 100% say there is. None of us know.

It is impossible to be 100% certain we are not all figments of some giant computer's simulation of reality.

It is impossible to be 100% certain the stars are not holes in a big sheet of black velvet just out of our reach.

It is impossible to be 100% certain that the world isn't being ruled by 10 foot tall alien lizards with a penchant for human flesh (though opinion differs as to whether they prefer us raw, or lightly toasted with some sort of piquant sauce.)

None of these are likely but it is impossible to be 100% certain!

So, the question then becomes a question of crediblity.

Billions of years of random chemistry accidentally knocking together some self-replicating molecules (or even just one as it's self- replicating), or a sentient creator (origin unknown) who/which for (unknown reason) decides to create (by inexplicable means) a sentient being and then play Sims with it?

lightnesspixie · 20/02/2020 11:34

Yes possibly - if only an in between place before rebirth

Rebellenny · 20/02/2020 17:09

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

my2bundles · 20/02/2020 17:41

I belive when we die that's it, we are nothing. I find that comforting I wouldn't want to go on indefinitely

TheSandman · 20/02/2020 20:30

I believe when we die that's it, we are nothing. I find that comforting I wouldn't want to go on indefinitely

I was once at a party and suddenly found myself in a small room with my ex, the woman I hooked up with after she threw me out, and the woman I subsequently left her for... It was very VERY VERY awkward. I imagine that's what being reunited with your loved ones in heaven must be like - forever! Glad it's not going to happen.

Don't get me wrong. I did love them all. Still love number three and am friends with number one, 20 years later - but even so...

Figgygal · 20/02/2020 20:32

No
I wish I did it must be comforting

restawhile77 · 20/02/2020 20:56

TheSandman If we are to believe in God and heaven then I don’t think it’s going to be anything like on earth. It’s another dimension, but multi dimensional itms. not a physical place where we’re all lumped in together with people we may not like. That’d be horrific and what would be the point in heaven if it was just like earth full of stresses and upsets. It can’t be compared with this life in any way.....I think we’ll see only things that make us happy. I think we’ll see our loved ones again but not in the same sense as here on earth. There’ll be no arguments or pettiness. It’ll just be pure love and happiness. Sorry if that sounds so sugar coated but that’s how I see it.

TheSandman · 20/02/2020 22:43

I think we’ll see our loved ones again but not in the same sense as here on earth. There’ll be no arguments or pettiness. It’ll just be pure love and happiness. Sorry if that sounds so sugar coated but that’s how I see it.

Sounds horrible. Like a endless Disney film.

So who gets to choose who loves whom in heaven? If you're not " all lumped in together with people we may not like" what happens when the loved one you get reunited with doesn't love you? Or, to turn it around, when you die do you get to be reunited with your obsessional stalker?

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