To Cancel Piano Lessons?

[RubysRoo]

I am not at all a competitive parent. For me my kids having active, full lives where they are happy, have good friendships, work at school to the best of their ability and are kind is more important to me than them being at the best school/top set in class/or any sort of prodigy. But I'm struggling with what to do about piano lesson. Would love to hear other people's opinions.

My 13 DD has been taking piano lessons for 3.5 years. Started b/c she wanted to. No pressure from me. One of 3 dc and she is the only one that takes piano. The same time she started 3 other friend's dc started ranging in age from 7-12 (dd was 10). 3.5 years on all my friend's dc are really doing so well, obviously the older ones on the whole progressing quicker than the younger ones, but my dd not so much. We just had the winter recital today and my dd plays more like the kids who started last term (September). She is clunky, makes many mistakes (every couple bars), and has no fluency to her playing at all. She practices minimally, she practices but not what is expected for her age and level - for example she will play 2 scales make mistakes in both and just carry on, never go back and play them again. She will play 1-2 current songs, loads of mistakes and doesn't do what is suggested like go through the bars she struggles with and just play those a few times, then go back and try the song again. She's 13 so she knows. Her attitude is that it is good enough and move on. Her teacher has addressed this, to no avail.

I wondered if it is to do with musicality. But she's very musical and her year at school had the opportunity to learn strings and she's doing remarkably well (teacher said on par with dc who have lessons outside of school, she doesn't), but she hates it. She also has a lovely voice but hates singing. That doesn't matter but kind of proves it isn't that she can't do it.

Here's my dilemma, these lessons are expensive. I pay £20/week which is £80/month (whether you have lessons in 1/2 term or not, you are charged the same monthly rate) plus the books and other items you need to buy like practice books (both the books with pieces in it and the school's practice recording books), they also charge £20 per family to attend three times a year concerts, and there's an annual registration fee of £50. They also insist on lessons It all adds up to about £100/month year round. That's a huge amount in our budget. And she's really not progressing. I mean I'd go so far as to say it sounds terrible though I'd never say that to her and I comment on positive things as well as make suggestions based on what the teacher put in her practice sheet. The school is amazing and I don't blame them, in 3 years she's had two teachers and it's the same with both, it's her hap hazard attitude that is the issue. She learns a song, stops practising it, and it's gone. Doesn't need to practice anymore as she says she knows the song now it isn't like she'll forget. And of course that's exactly what happened.

Today at the recital it was almost embarrassing and I hate admitting that as a Mum because everything in me says it shouldn't matter what stage she's at. A couple people came came up to us saying what a tricky piece for a beginner and well done for being so brave. Well, she's been playing 3.5 years and it's a piece that all my friends dc mastered within a couple terms of lessons. It's a very large music school, so these people didn't know she wasn't a beginner. All the kids playing the number of years she has are going in for exams at this stage and play with fluency. She honestly wasn't much better than those that started in January, and not even as good as some of the dc who started in September. She just shrugs her shoulders and says oh well.

What do I do? Keep paying £100/month when she won't follow teacher's recommended practice techniques, practices in 5-10 minute bursts with constant mistakes and never tries to fix it, and really isn't progressing? Or tell her unless I see some progress - more to do with attitude and not to do with mastering anything - this is her last term? She doesn't have to be ready to take exams, nor the best, or even amazing, but I think she should be willing to practice well, work at things to learn them and progress. I don't care how fast but progress.

FWIW she loves piano and says how she plays is good enough for her.

What would you do? £1200 for a kid to play a couple songs at the exact same pace/level/skill set over a year or two is truly a massive waste of money. I've spent just shy of £4000 on lessons and honestly she knows a few scales by heart and a song I'm sure she could have taught herself via youtube. I am a single parent, £4000 is a huge amount of money, I could have started proper retirement savings, we could have afforded a nice holiday somewhere like Cornwall for less than the cost of these lessons and I could have saved the rest. This dc is very intelligent - high marks at school - if she put her mind to it she could be at such a different place with her piano playing. I think more than anything I feel disappointment considering the sacrifice to make it happen - when she started I picked up 4 extra hours a week of work in order to make it happen. I already work more than full time hours.

I haven’t invented anything, TatianaLarina - I have merely tried to understand the point of your posts in the context of the OP’s problem, and have to conclude that there was no point whatsoever in telling the OP that the going rate for good teachers in London is £80 per hour.

And when it comes to knowing a reasonable hourly rate for a decent teacher who can and does teach the basics, you clearly know very little of use to the vast majority of the UK population, TatianaLarina, and my comment from earlier that you just like reassuringly expensive stands true.

If she has a list of songs she wants to learn, by now she should be able to sight read and improve on her own, so long as the composition is not too hard.

My parents threw money down the drain on music lessons for me because I was good at it and they wanted me to have the opportunities they didn’t. But I didn’t like it. It was a pain in the arse.

TatianaLarina - yes, I have issues with your arrogant rudeness about the vast majority of music teachers in the UK who charge reasonable prices for children to be able to access music lessons

Agreed. It's insulting.

Music in this country is generally very badly taught compared to Russia and Eastern Europe and E.Asia - China, Japan and Korea.

This is also highly insulting, although given the username and the inclusion of Russia at the beginning of this list I'm beginning to understand where the bias against UK music teachers comes from.

The Royal College is £25 + travel expenses for 30 mins. But those are current students or recent graduates, they’re not teachers with long experience.

Rubbish. There may be some younger tutors; however I personally know three people who teach at the Royal College. They all have several decades of experience, have made recordings, and have many qualifications.

Hypothetically, if when she was 10 she had had a teacher who taught her how to practice and got her into good habits, she might be in a different place now. Personally I’d have given it a year if she didn’t practice in that time, I’d have binned it.

As you seem to consider yourself such an expert on this matter you should surely know that the verb is "to practise".

As I said £80 is the going hourly rate in London.

No, it is not. The Incorporated Society of Musicians reports that most private teachers in inner London charge from £35-£51.50 per hour. 20% of teachers charge above this rate, but the number who charge 60% above the very top of this range (i.e. £80 p/h) must be very small indeed. Hardly the "going rate".

If she can't be arsed to practice, it's not worth it. Maybe she'd rather just play for fun, like I do with the guitar.

and have to conclude that there was no point whatsoever in telling the OP that the going rate for good teachers in London is £80 per hour

If you read my posts, that was a detail that came out in general discussion around teachers and pricing, it wasn’t something I was telling the OP per se. Nor is it up to you to determine how others post. I don’t think your posts on this thread have been particularly helpful to the OP. The majority have been aggressive-defensive, focused entirely on your own beef, hijacking the thread for your own self-justification.

As a musician of nearly 50 years, I’m well aware of what is generally believed to constitute ‘basics’ and ‘decent’ teacher. The unfortunate results can be seen in any school concert in the country. Truly good teacher are had to come by.

you just like reassuringly expensive stands true

No doubt you didn’t meant to make yourself sound as ignorant and silly as you do with this comment.

I'd also add that she can go back to it one day. You're never too old to learn an instrument.My mum had singing lessons from when she was in her 30s to when she was in her 50s, and it paid off - she got into the Halle! And I'm 35 and I'm teaching myself to play the tuba, though I do want lessons to help me with my technique.

I play piano myself. I hated the bloody finger exercises, but my mum, being musical herself, was insistent I practice. And it paid off. I got up to Grade 6 standard.

This is also highly insulting, although given the username and the inclusion of Russia at the beginning of this list I'm beginning to understand where the bias against UK music teachers comes from.

You would be amusingly wrong as I’m British. Tatiana Larina is from Eugene Onegin.

Rubbish. There may be some younger tutors; however I personally know three people who teach at the Royal College. They all have several decades of experience, have made recordings, and have many qualifications.

Who are teaching students at the college. Members of the public use the external teaching service, prices as quoted. I know 4 professors at the college, 1 of whom taught my sister. The Junior College fees are just over £1400 a term. Bursaries are available.

No, it is not. The Incorporated Society of Musicians reports that most private teachers in inner London charge from £35-£51.50 per hour. 20% of teachers charge above this rate, but the number who charge 60% above the very top of this range (i.e. £80 p/h) must be very small indeed. Hardly the "going rate".

I specified from the outset that that is the going rate for the top, most experienced teachers in London. Not the going rate for your average private teacher. That’s not something you can get from a website. You need to know a large number of professional musicians, teachers and students to know what the really accomplished teachers charge.

The first thing I was told when DD started piano was there is no practice. She needed to play for 30 minutes a day. She did really well, we thought she'd do music at uni but she decided that wasn't what she wanted and I don't thinks he'd touched a piano in 10 years.

TatianaLarina - it’s amusing that you think my posts to the OP on this thread have not been particularly helpful, since I advised exactly the same thing as you - that she she stop paying for piano lessons . And no, my comment about you liking reassuringly expensive does not make me sound ignorant and silly, but your claim I sound ignorant and silly makes you sound like a crashing snob who knows very little about standard music education in this country because you live in an elitist bubble. Yes, if you expect your child to follow you into a 50-year career in classical music, then pay £80 per hour for music tuition and get your child into Chetham’s or whatever, but don’t have the temerity to imply that anything other than that is a waste of time and money (although fwiw, I think there are many dire teachers out there, in addition to the expense of music lessons meaning that far too many people attempt to learn a musical instrument in 20-minute group lessons once a week where the majority of children do bugger all practice and hold the genuinely committed children back, or put them off altogether).

I think everyone deserves good teaching. As I said before, when children start when you can’t tell what their level will be. Just to be able to play pieces for pleasure at home you need to get to a reasonable standard, you don’t need to go on and have a career in it.

Standard music education is all around us, it’s not something you can avoid.

We agree on a lot, TatianaLarina. I think everyone deserves good teaching, too. Standard music education, however, is eminently avoidable - just go into most state primary schools and you will see very little evidence of much music education at all.