To Cancel Piano Lessons?

[RubysRoo]

I am not at all a competitive parent. For me my kids having active, full lives where they are happy, have good friendships, work at school to the best of their ability and are kind is more important to me than them being at the best school/top set in class/or any sort of prodigy. But I'm struggling with what to do about piano lesson. Would love to hear other people's opinions.

My 13 DD has been taking piano lessons for 3.5 years. Started b/c she wanted to. No pressure from me. One of 3 dc and she is the only one that takes piano. The same time she started 3 other friend's dc started ranging in age from 7-12 (dd was 10). 3.5 years on all my friend's dc are really doing so well, obviously the older ones on the whole progressing quicker than the younger ones, but my dd not so much. We just had the winter recital today and my dd plays more like the kids who started last term (September). She is clunky, makes many mistakes (every couple bars), and has no fluency to her playing at all. She practices minimally, she practices but not what is expected for her age and level - for example she will play 2 scales make mistakes in both and just carry on, never go back and play them again. She will play 1-2 current songs, loads of mistakes and doesn't do what is suggested like go through the bars she struggles with and just play those a few times, then go back and try the song again. She's 13 so she knows. Her attitude is that it is good enough and move on. Her teacher has addressed this, to no avail.

I wondered if it is to do with musicality. But she's very musical and her year at school had the opportunity to learn strings and she's doing remarkably well (teacher said on par with dc who have lessons outside of school, she doesn't), but she hates it. She also has a lovely voice but hates singing. That doesn't matter but kind of proves it isn't that she can't do it.

Here's my dilemma, these lessons are expensive. I pay £20/week which is £80/month (whether you have lessons in 1/2 term or not, you are charged the same monthly rate) plus the books and other items you need to buy like practice books (both the books with pieces in it and the school's practice recording books), they also charge £20 per family to attend three times a year concerts, and there's an annual registration fee of £50. They also insist on lessons It all adds up to about £100/month year round. That's a huge amount in our budget. And she's really not progressing. I mean I'd go so far as to say it sounds terrible though I'd never say that to her and I comment on positive things as well as make suggestions based on what the teacher put in her practice sheet. The school is amazing and I don't blame them, in 3 years she's had two teachers and it's the same with both, it's her hap hazard attitude that is the issue. She learns a song, stops practising it, and it's gone. Doesn't need to practice anymore as she says she knows the song now it isn't like she'll forget. And of course that's exactly what happened.

Today at the recital it was almost embarrassing and I hate admitting that as a Mum because everything in me says it shouldn't matter what stage she's at. A couple people came came up to us saying what a tricky piece for a beginner and well done for being so brave. Well, she's been playing 3.5 years and it's a piece that all my friends dc mastered within a couple terms of lessons. It's a very large music school, so these people didn't know she wasn't a beginner. All the kids playing the number of years she has are going in for exams at this stage and play with fluency. She honestly wasn't much better than those that started in January, and not even as good as some of the dc who started in September. She just shrugs her shoulders and says oh well.

What do I do? Keep paying £100/month when she won't follow teacher's recommended practice techniques, practices in 5-10 minute bursts with constant mistakes and never tries to fix it, and really isn't progressing? Or tell her unless I see some progress - more to do with attitude and not to do with mastering anything - this is her last term? She doesn't have to be ready to take exams, nor the best, or even amazing, but I think she should be willing to practice well, work at things to learn them and progress. I don't care how fast but progress.

FWIW she loves piano and says how she plays is good enough for her.

What would you do? £1200 for a kid to play a couple songs at the exact same pace/level/skill set over a year or two is truly a massive waste of money. I've spent just shy of £4000 on lessons and honestly she knows a few scales by heart and a song I'm sure she could have taught herself via youtube. I am a single parent, £4000 is a huge amount of money, I could have started proper retirement savings, we could have afforded a nice holiday somewhere like Cornwall for less than the cost of these lessons and I could have saved the rest. This dc is very intelligent - high marks at school - if she put her mind to it she could be at such a different place with her piano playing. I think more than anything I feel disappointment considering the sacrifice to make it happen - when she started I picked up 4 extra hours a week of work in order to make it happen. I already work more than full time hours.

That’s a lot of money to spend for little return. I would say to continue with expensive lessons she needs to do x min (20?) playing a day- it can be partly YouTube songs etc if she prefers that to her set pieces. Or she can teach herself at home. I did the latter and I still play now for pleasure.

Also, they have not touched the piano voluntarily since. It is a white elephant inour house.

Herpesfreesince03 - piano lessons are far too expensive for the lessons in themselves to be your hobby. Four quid a week for Taekwondo can be a hobby. Playing the piano without lessons can be a hobby. Having piano lessons is not a hobby - the hobby is the practising in between. Lessons are seriously expensive. And take it from me, piano teachers don’t like teaching people too bloody lazy to learn from them, either.

I think a child needs to practise minimum 15 minutes every day and practise the difficult bits repetitively (eg 5-10 times). I think sitting with a 13 year old to supervise (if you can) would still help. She also really needs to play the left and right hands separately first and master that. There is tons on YouTube and listening to the pieces can really help.

But as to the question of scrapping an extra curricular activity altogether - I think ideally a child focusses on finding something they are both naturally good at and enjoy. I think it is better to do 1 thing really well.

I would stop - you seem to be worrying a bit about 'sunk costs' - by which I mean you feel you have spent a lot of money on lessons without much return for your money, maybe you think you should keep going in the hope she will improve and justify the money already spent. But it would be throwing good money after bad.

She won;t improve - as you say children who started at the same time are way beyond her level, she doesn't practice so she won;t improve. If she wants to tinker about on the piano and knock out a few tunes - that's fine, but you shouldn;t have to ay for it. Obviously if she wants to learn to play the piano properly you tube is not the answer, but if she wants to pick up a few tips so she can have a bit of fun - then that's fine.
She already does an instrument, maybe two is too much for her, Does she do a lot of activities.

I've got two grown up children both had piano lessons. My DS didn;t practice, enjoy playing a few tunes but basically wasn;t that bothered. So we stopped lessons. He chose to do drama lessons instead - and absolutely loved them and threw all of his efforts into them.
My DD also had piano lessons From lesson one I never had to ask her to practice, she did it herself. First thing she did when she got home from school was go to the piano to play because she loved it. She has gone on to be a professional pianist.

It's horses for courses. There's no shame in saying 'this really isn;t my thing and I don't want to put the effort in' and finding something else she enjoys.
At worst she can always go back to playing the piano as an adult when she can pay for her own lessons (I did that and enjoyed it vastly more than I had as a child)

My daughter was a bit like this with guitar so I did what Vegana suggests - told her if she wants me to put money into lessons she needs to put effort into practicing diligently.

Do you support her in practicing by reminding her to do it and listening to her play? I find that makes a big difference to my daughter. We also found her a band to play in - which she loves even more and gives her more reason to master a song and not put up with it just being good enough for her.

As someone who plays 2 instruments you’re completely wasting your time and money.

£20 a lesson will not yield a good teacher anyway.

After 3 years she hasn’t grasped how to practice, nor is interested in doing so. She can just tinkle away on her mistaken ridden scales and pieces on her own.

That £1000 a year could be invested for her or your future.

I was made to continue with piano lessons way after I'd lost interest in it. I dread to think how much money my parents wasted!
I was never a natural and even though I practised for at least 30 minutes every day I was never able to play easily. I'm now 40 and I haven't touched a piano in over 20 years. I don't miss it or regret not playing.
I won't be encouraging either of my children to learn an instrument unless they particularly want to, they have other interests that they pursue. I was always going to be forced into playing an instrument as it was something my mum had always wanted to do but didn't have the opportunity to.
Personally, if I was you I'd cancel the lessons. Your DD can always continue to work on what she's already learnt and perhaps start lessons again in the future.

One way through this would just be to stop the lessons, but don't link it to either that performance, or her achievement. Just say you've been reviewing the family finances and things have to go, that lessons are very expensive, and you feel like after 3.5 years she has learned enough in terms of being able to read music to go it alone. Taking another job/working extra hours so she can plod along once a week and not really practice inbetween (proper practice, not playing it badly once) isn't a reason to spend £1000 a year if you are hard up.

Mine did guitar, loved it but hated practicing. It dragged on and on. I was paying out, she was happy but not improving. So I asked teacher for minimum practice amounts. So I gave her a month and if she wasn't doing it she could learn off YouTube for free.
She stopped for a year then asked to go back and did really well.

Ds wanted piano lessons and got to the stage where he had no interest in practising, probably around your dd's age. I stopped paying for them and he let it lie for several years. When he was at uni he arranged his own lessons from one of the music students, skipped a grade or so and took his grade 8 which he achieved.

If she's not interested in practising I wouldn't pay but I'd be neutral about it, not angry. If she really loves it she'll find a way to keep playing whether now or later on.

Such a head / heart dilemma...Has your DC passed grade 1? My DC was very resistant to play, but has managed to pick up the keys and scales remarkably easily with minimal practise, and is now suddenly enjoy playing and just passed grade 1, after 4 terms (which is average progress). TbH I would be wanting more than tinkering on the ivories to justify the ongoing outlay.

Probably not the case but I continued piano lessons despite being pretty rubbish at them because I enjoyed the lessons because my teacher was so lovely. As a teenager she was a trusted adult who I could talk to about anything and gave great advice that helped me when I was too much of a mardy teenager to have that relationship with my parents. I would have been devastated if my parents had pulled the plug on lessons because they thought I wasn't good enough because that hour a week meant so much to me. It was my time to do something that wasn't school work that had no end point as such and to chat to the lovely tutor.

However my parents could afford lessons and never made a big deal about it. If they'd explained their financial situation and it was like yours, then I may have understood their position. Talk to her op and give her the opportunity to explain herself or practise more if she wants to keep going because you are putting a lot of money into her hobby.

Oh, OP, I feel your pain, I've been there myself.
Let's just clear a few things up though. Loving music is absolutely not the same as loving to practice playing music. These are two completely different things.
Practice is something that just has to be done. It doesn't have to be loved.
To get to the stage that you can enjoy and really love playing the piano - there are a few years during which you must do the practice.
Not love it. Hate it of you want, but do it.
That is all. Litterally.
Second, possibly there is a lesson to be learned from not getting enough practice and turning up for recitals. Good or bad would depend on the individual.
However, if I don't see progress and the person is obviously too lazy or indifferent to practice, I would stop paying for it.
Spend £1,200 on something you will enjoy instead.

OP, I totally get where you're coming from. I had this with DD and horse riding, although she was considerably younger, but it was a 45 minute drive for a 20 minute lesson.
She loved it.

Eventually they told her that she wasn't making expected progress. She and I talked about it, and she chose to walk away. But she was 7.

Your DD is a lot older. But I kind of agree with the amazingly named Herpesfreesince03.... if your kid loves it, and if you aren't competitive, then it isn't a waste.
I think in your shoes, I'd have a chat with her. Gently tease out where she thinks she's at (how good she thinks she is) and how she sees it going forward.
If she is aware that she's at the level of a newbie, but still wants to do it, then I'd say let her. But I don't think you are being unreasonable either way.

Actually , I think you sound like a fab parent!

So you pay £20 per (30-minute?) lesson, plus £50 registration, plus £20 to attend concerts and you can't terminate until the end of the summer term even though it's only mid-February and halfway through the academic year? The school is taking the piss.

£20 a lesson will not yield a good teacher anyway.

Rather depends on how long the lesson is. £40 p/h is a good rate, even in London.

Totally agree with WalkAround: piano isn't a hobby like all others. It needs to be practised for a return. You are totally right to stop lessons. You can use the money for something else of more value to your dd. It was a brilliant idea to try lessons, and it is a good idea to know when to stop too. She's had the experience. Time to move on.

Our son plays the piano too. I gave him and ultimatum practice or it's over. He started to practice and it's doing well.
Don't sweat it. Let her know that she can take it back later in life if she is willing to practice.
Pointless to waste so much money if her heart isn't in it.

Rather depends on how long the lesson is. £40 p/h is a good rate, even in London.

Not for a top teacher.

Stop lessons for the time being. Buy her a subscription to the "Simply Piano" piano teaching app. Tell her that when she's worked through all the lessons and can play all the pieces in the most advanced lessons you'll consider starting them again. Even if she's uses the app for hours every week, that'll probably take her a couple of years. (And she would get past her current level in the first few weeks, by the sounds of it.)

(To use the app you need a digital piano that can be connected to tablet via USB cable. In theory it can work with an acoustic piano be listening, but that's not as reliable, the cable connection is a must have.)

Of course the likely outcome is she doesn't have the discipline or interest to teach herself from the app. That's fine, at least then you'll have spent far less money on her not learning to play.

I can see no point at all in me learning to play the piano, yet nearly every day I get the itch to go and practise on the app for half-an-hour to an hour. I've never had lessons and feel I'm making plenty of progress.

Rather depends on how long the lesson is. £40 p/h is a good rate, even in London.

Not for a top teacher.

Even the London conservatoires pay under £40 p/h. London state schools pay around £30 p/h to very experienced, well-qualified instrumental tutors. It's nonsense to suggest that there are a few "top teachers" charging £80+ an hour (or whatever) and every other teacher is second-rate.

Why does a not especially dedicated 13-year-old beginner need a "top teacher" anyway? Do they have an ex-Olympian to teach PE, a maths PhD to teach GCSE, an RSC actor to teach drama, a Booker prize-winner to teach English?

I’ve just stopped my 11 year old’s piano lessons (to much objection). She plays another instrument very well, and had done well in piano grades 1 and 2. But she didn’t practice without a huge amount of nagging, and was really just coasting. I wasn’t prepared to spend the money (or to sit outside her lessons every week with her younger siblings) if she didn’t seem to appreciate the opportunity or be prepared to put the work in. It was an easy decision for me when looked at in the context of life lessons rather than piano lessons. She can always go back to piano if she’s prepared to make the commitment.

In my experience you've got to want to commit to practicing.

I taught myself to play brass instruments when I was 13 - later I learned guitar/bass/dbass etc. By the time I took GCSE I was grade 8 brass and went on to do A-level in which I got 8 distinction.

I practiced most days at home in my bedroom because I enjoyed it and wanted to be good at it. Roll on 20 odd years and I've bought a piano that I'm learning by myself. I'm pretty crap now but I reckon if I stick to it then I'll get the hang of it.

Just a different perspective, but music can be a different form of expression and sometimes an outlet for what cannot be otherwise expressed. An example being I am an able musician (grade 8 aged 14 top grades at GCSE and A Level music degree etc) but struggled through piano lessons. The piano just isn't my instrument and whilst I did get further than your daughter (grade 5) it was a real battle of the wills for over a decade.....I hated it but various professionals advised my parents it was 'good for me'. It wasnt beneficial in any of the ways that those professionals predicted, but I was exposed to a very traumatic experience (ongoing PTSD) and shockingly it was piano that I spent hours playing (badly) not any of the instruments which I had mastered. Without any exaggeration the piano saved my life and I am forever grateful for those childhood piano lessons. I am no pianist but my mental health is a heck of a lot better because of the piano.