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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To feel my brother what I really think

87 replies

Orangeblossom78 · 14/02/2020 11:59

about his DCs?

They have no rules, swear, have 'potty mouths' as they call it and are rude, stroppy and difficult to be around.

They aren't little anymore either, upper years of primary school.

I would just leave it, none of my business, however he keeps wanting to visit with them because 'they want to see their cousins' and 'it would be nice for them to be friends"

Mine are starting to resent this, but I look 'mean' if I say no / make excuses.

Would you explain? I do expect mine to say please and thank you and be generally polite and understanding. I don;t understand how he thinks they will be friends if the behaviour doesn't change.

Are we supposed to just suck it up? I think they copy to be honest is he can be stroppy and snappy with them as well.

OP posts:

Original poster

Orangeblossom78 · 14/02/2020 13:09

Do 'cousins have a special relationship'? I didn't with mine.

OP posts:

PhilomenaChristmasPie · 14/02/2020 13:10

DD 12 would be horrified and want to go home DS 8 has ADHD and would copy the behaviour. I'd stay away if they were my nephews and nieces.

PhilomenaChristmasPie · 14/02/2020 13:13

My cousins were like a little brother and sister, as they lived round the corner, I appreciate that not everyone has that.

DisorganisedOrganiser · 14/02/2020 13:14

Hmmm.

Looking at things from the other side, you don’t seem to have much sympathy for your brother who is clearly looking for support from you. Parenting is really, really hard especially if you have lively children which it sounds as if he does. Especially if friendly children behave very well. I suspect the visits are lot too much fun for him.

Surely you could just meet him every so often as you are already doing. No holidays.

If the children’s behaviour is very difficult then of course he doesn’t want to risk taking them out of the house too much. What about a pub with a play area / wacky warehouse type thing. His kids could burn off energy and pop back o the table to eat. If your kids are too old for play area then that is the perfect excuse for them not to have to spend too much time with the cousins as they can stay at the table.

Or National Trust type place. Your kids might be too old but his could run wild.

Not sure what is wrong with the mother being annoyed with your child eye rolling. It all sounds very judgy.

It sounds as if you have great, well behaved children. Not everybody does.

Original poster

Orangeblossom78 · 14/02/2020 13:14

Well that's the thing people and children are different cousins or not..no-one wants to be around people who boss them around and are rude...we as adults can cope with it better as we are older and in charge in a way but it's difficult for children.

OP posts:

EngagedAgain · 14/02/2020 13:16

Nrtft but I doubt the amount of time his children spend with yours will make much difference, if yours are being brought up to be polite etc. That will stick more imo. Perhaps strike a balance about how often and long they visit, to avoid a fallout. If you say something, even if you're brother doesn't seem to be offended, people tend to remember these things. Just carry on bringing your children up how you want to. Some of it might rub off onto their cousins which won't be a bad thing.

DisorganisedOrganiser · 14/02/2020 13:17

Just to add there seems to be a total lack of understanding that some children behave worse than others. Parenting is not simple cause and effect... you cannot guarantee good behaviour.

PineappleDanish · 14/02/2020 13:18

Do 'cousins have a special relationship'? I didn't with mine.

Nor I with mine. But MN is very firmly divided between those like you or me who think that is cousins get on it's an added bonus, and those who believe it's your duty to cultivate a friendship because the fact you're related is way more important than any non-blood friendships.

DisorganisedOrganiser · 14/02/2020 13:20

It is absolutely your duty! It is part of being a parent.

Poohpooh · 14/02/2020 13:25

I actually think, he struggles with them and maybe it helps having other, slightly older and calmer children around, maybe it helps?

I suspect you're right and this is less about the kids spending time with eachother and more about making things easier for him. Do you think if you were the one with younger kids he would want to see you all?

I think you would end up doing a lot of babysitting if you went on hols with him.

Kanga83 · 14/02/2020 13:26

Insist on somewhere outdoors or cinema/pizza/burger. It pressed, simply say it's too full on with all the kids in one house and the fresh air will do good/kids will enjoy the treat more etc. It pressed again explain yours are not comfortable with their 'high energy' and the youngest especially can get overwhelmed by it so it a neutral place or not at all. As much as he might want his kids to see their cousins, he also needs consider his niece/nephews needs too. You are their parent, your brother will have to suck it up.

Disfordarkchocolate · 14/02/2020 13:26

There is no use in looking to the OP for support though @DisorganisedOrganiser, children need consistent parenting all the time. A weekend with cousins is going to make no difference, apart from upsetting the OP's and her children.

He's not asking for advice either. It sounds more like he wants/needs a break and it's not fair to ask children to provide that.

I think you need to have that difficult conversation because he's going to ask why eventually.

Barbararara · 14/02/2020 13:31

Sorry if that came across as implying that you are controlling. That wasn't what I meant.
More that my dm couldn’t see any value in my aunt’s parenting, but from the perspective of a child it was different.
I suppose my main point is that there can be something to gain from the experience of being around difficult/different people.

ToyKitchenSink · 14/02/2020 13:36

I completely understand what you're saying. Your post rings so many bells with me. I love my bro very much but he's a rubbish parent (as is his wife) who can't reconcile that their bad parenting causes the bad behaviour of both my nephews. They're appalling but my DB just rolls his eyes, thinks they're 'spirited' (we all know what that really means, don't we?) and has no expectations regarding the behaviours they should be expecting of them. So they don't take them to restaurants, shops, museums, etc. - anywhere there are other people who might assume a child (without special needs) can sit still and eat a meal without running around a restaurant.

I live 10 miles from my DB so there was a lot of pressure to see them all the time but that has decreased a lot since they've realised I avoid seeing the children.

I did try and have an honest discussion with my DB and it did not go well. At all. We had a big falling out and our parents had to broker a peace between us.

@stayingontherail has a good response.

I wish you lots of luck. There is no easy solution to this. If there was one, I'd bloody be doing it. With bells on.

MatildaTheCat · 14/02/2020 13:42

My DB has very spirited children. When there are family gatherings they can be pretty unbearable as they get so over excited and loud. Their parents mainly ignore it or make futile efforts to calm them down. They also seem to think that it’s nice that the kids are so excited to see everyone.

I have taken on the role of Strict Aunty Matilda and do you know what? They adore me. I’m very firm but kind and in my house it’s my rules. Even at their house I’ve been known to intervene and manage them. Obviously not in a way that causes issues and my DB and SIL are happy to let me. They are just a bit ineffectual when it comes to discipline and also have much lower expectations than I do.

In your place I’d suggest a short weekend break at a suitable mid point with separate accommodation. Be clear from the start that you will only do some activities together and some of the time is separate. Also be clear that you won’t be with children who swear or shout or whatever it is they do. I say this directly to the children, not my DB.

It’s worked well for me and actually they are lovely children but it’s not always obvious on meeting them.

DisorganisedOrganiser · 14/02/2020 13:46

But you can’t surely expect parents of ‘spirited’ children to take them to restaurants etc as it is. Just a nightmare for all concerned.

I have two children. Parented the same. One is very easy when out and about and generally behaves well (exceptions of course as she is a child). The other is much, much harder to control. We do go to restaurants but certainly have to think carefully which type. Incidentally my DC2’s behaviour is usually much, much worse when my judgy parents are around. You can feel the judgement seeping from them and it makes everybody uptight and behaviour gets worse. Even the one who is usually well behaved plays up.

chillie · 14/02/2020 13:56

How would your brother and his wife react if you gently but firmly corrected his children in front of them? Would they kick off?
My sister has lively children, I just tell them as if they were mine, including when they are being rude to my sister and she says nothing.
My sister admittedly does not react when I do this, she does nothing or backs me!

Original poster

Orangeblossom78 · 14/02/2020 13:57

something to gain from the experience of being around difficult/different people

You see, in my family, our own parents could be a bit like this and has resulted in me being low contact, i feel there is learning to do and yes, we can learn why people are like that but it is also important to learn you don't need to always 'shut up and put up' with such difficult behaviour, especially if it is directed at you.

maybe that is influencing me a bit as well. as brother seems to be going down the same road.

I’m very firm but kind and in my house it’s my rules

Yes I find this hard, I would love to do the same (am an ex teacher and am itching to dot he same)- however I find other parents can take this in a bad way - he got defensive when I tried asking them for a thank you for example after I got a drink for one of them. "We don't tell them to say that" so that isn't easy.

OP posts:

Original poster

Orangeblossom78 · 14/02/2020 13:58

So that's different from the ones saying about backing each other up.

OP posts:

ItWentDownMyHeartHole · 14/02/2020 14:01

I would say do not tell him how you feel. He might never forgive you. The kids will improve with time and I think, in the meantime, keep visits to a minimum.

DH and I have exactly this going on at the moment. We do as little as we can get away with, hoping it gets easier each time. No luck so far. My mother had a word with my sibling about their parenting and they no longer speak. And the kids now say that they hate her also. It’s horrible.

Good luck with it.

DisorganisedOrganiser · 14/02/2020 14:03

But in the real world of work or even school / clubs, your children will have to spend time with people they find annoying or who behave differently from them. Obviously barring dangerous / illegal behaviour (nobody should be assaulted or anything like that), in life you do have to learn to put up with people you find annoying. I’m not sure why you would want to teach your children it’s ok just to refuse to spend time with people who are less polite than them.

MatildaTheCat · 14/02/2020 14:08

I insist on please and thanks you. And yes, I’ve had my SIL say that she doesn’t mind about this (she’s from a culture where please and thanks aren’t frequently used). My response is, ‘ Ah well I do mind so we do say please and thanks here. Most parents like to hear a please and thanks when children come to play so it’s good practice.’ All with a smile and not in a pointed way. With the children I might make a joke and say, ‘Oh no, I think my ears are broken,’ when they fail to say please.

It’s really been effective and although it feels a bit like I’m putting in the hard work they have benefited from it. The difference is, though, that I see them a lot. I would still try all of this on occasional meet-ups.

The other thing they do which I can’t stand is constantly interrupt and shout over each other and I don’t tolerate much of that either. I just don’t make it about their parenting skills, just my different expectations.

ddraigygoch · 14/02/2020 14:11

@DisorganisedOrganiser but in work, school etc they have no choice. They are free to pick and choose who they spend time with in their personal free time.

FinallyHere · 14/02/2020 14:29

he struggles with them

Tells you everything. I'd go with excuses then other commitments if you are pressed.

It would be different if he were openly asking for your help and support in parenting and listening to your advice

Original poster

Orangeblossom78 · 14/02/2020 14:30

Yes it is different 1:1 and for long periods, especially in their own home I think. You don't have to do that with work / school mates do you.

OP posts:

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